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00:00:00
[music]00:00:02
And that is the worst terrorist attack00:00:04
in Australia's history.00:00:06
>> Sadly, I was not surprised. Australian00:00:09
authorities have a lot to answer for.00:00:12
>> Jonathan is a spokesperson for the IDF.00:00:15
>> No, he's not anymore.00:00:16
>> He has been directly responsible for00:00:19
much murder of Palestinians, whether it00:00:21
was after October 7th or before. Since00:00:23
you're half Palestinian, I can00:00:24
understand your frustration [music]00:00:26
because you and your forefathers had an00:00:29
opportunity to estate and you and your00:00:32
forefathers missed that opportunity. I00:00:35
will not allow the tragedy of these00:00:38
innocent victims in Bondai Beach to be00:00:40
politicized.00:00:41
>> The rise of anti-semitism [music]00:00:43
has happened long before the 7th of00:00:45
October massacre and before this war.00:00:47
Many people feel [music] that the lives00:00:50
of Jews around the world have been made00:00:52
less safe by the actions of the Israeli00:00:55
government. I simply wonder if you as a00:00:58
government have considered the actions00:01:00
you've been taking.00:01:04
The atrocity on Bondai Beach this00:01:06
weekend was a heinous anti-semitic00:01:08
terrorist attack perpetrated against00:01:10
innocent people by extremists who hated00:01:12
them for their faith. There's near00:01:14
universal condemnation for that. But as00:01:16
with any tragedy, there is a great deal00:01:18
of disagreement about how we should00:01:19
collectively respond and what it tells00:01:21
us about where we are as a culture. Many00:01:23
prominent people, including former00:01:24
Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott,00:01:26
point their finger at Western00:01:27
governments which rush to recognize a00:01:29
Palestinian state and tolerated00:01:31
extremism as they see it at anti-Israel00:01:34
protests. Uh, I think there's been an00:01:36
error somewhere for this guy to have had00:01:39
so many guns, but in the end, it's the00:01:42
mindset00:01:43
uh behind the trigger, so to speak,00:01:46
that's the problem, not the trigger00:01:48
itself. I mean, it's this rampant Jew00:01:51
hatred. Uh, it's this sense that somehow00:01:54
it's okay if you're a Muslim to say,00:01:57
"Oh, Jews should be killed." That's what00:02:00
needs to change.00:02:02
Others have argued that by the very same00:02:04
logic, the Israeli government is00:02:05
culpable for the mass suffering is00:02:07
inflicted on Gaza. Attention is turning00:02:09
again to immigration policies and00:02:11
whether multiculture and Muslim culture00:02:13
in particular can ever work in the West.00:02:16
We'll debate all of these issues00:02:17
shortly, but we begin with Israel's00:02:20
deputy foreign minister Sharon Haskell00:02:22
who joins me now. Thank you very much00:02:23
indeed for joining me.00:02:25
>> Hello, Pierce.00:02:27
I was watching um I was on social media00:02:30
actually uh on Sunday morning in London00:02:33
when the first reports began to come in00:02:35
from Bondi Beach and it [clears throat]00:02:38
says something about the times we live00:02:40
in now that when I heard that there were00:02:42
gunmen opening fire on people on Bondi00:02:46
Beach my first thought was oh god I hope00:02:49
it's not Jewish people because I know00:02:51
there's a lot of Jewish people who live00:02:53
in Sydney who like to go to Bondi a lot00:02:55
of people in Melbourne as well. In fact,00:02:56
most Australian Jews live in those two00:02:59
cities. And very quickly, it became00:03:02
clear there was a Hanukkah festival,00:03:04
that there were families, and that these00:03:06
uh shooters deliberately targeted them.00:03:09
And it was an appalling anti-semitic00:03:12
attack on Jewish people because they00:03:14
were Jews. There's no other way to00:03:16
describe what has happened. as a senior00:03:19
member of uh of the Israel government,00:03:24
as a Jew yourself, what was your00:03:26
reaction? Because I was horrified and00:03:28
I'm not Jewish.00:03:30
>> Well, I think every single human being,00:03:33
every decent human being should be00:03:35
shocked to its core. I mean, those00:03:38
sites, those images are heartbreaking.00:03:40
This is a tragedy. This is a Jewish00:03:42
tragedy, an Australian trai tragedy.00:03:45
It's a, you know, These are children,00:03:50
elderly Holocaust survivors who went to00:03:53
celebrate the holiday. Thousands of00:03:55
people from the Jewish community00:03:57
gathering together to light candles00:03:59
together and children to play with drs00:04:01
and to dance to music. And those two00:04:05
monsters, those two terrorists came with00:04:08
hunting guns to hunt for Jews. That's00:04:11
the reality. And it is heartbreaking to00:04:14
see it. And I have to say that not just00:04:16
as a representative of the only Jewish00:04:18
state in the world where we feel00:04:20
responsibility for Jewish community but00:04:22
this is a personal one as well. The00:04:25
first images that came to me were from00:04:27
my own friends in Bondi in Tamarama in00:04:31
Sydney. I don't know if you know that00:04:33
Pierce but I used to live in Sydney for00:04:35
six wonderful years.00:04:36
>> Right.00:04:37
>> Australia is one of the most wonderful00:04:39
places. I worked at the Bondai vet. I00:04:42
surfed in Bondai Beach hundreds of00:04:45
times, went to celebrations with the00:04:47
Kabad house. This used to be one of the00:04:50
most protected places for Jews. This is00:04:53
my community. This is my friends, my00:04:56
relatives.00:04:58
>> And to get those messages from them and00:05:01
the images, it really shook me to to to00:05:04
the core. I it's absolutely00:05:07
heartbreaking. It's a tragedy. But I00:05:09
must say as well, Pierce, this is not a00:05:11
surprise. It's not a surprise at all.00:05:14
>> Well, there have been there have been an00:05:15
increasing number of anti-semitic00:05:17
incidents in Australia since October the00:05:21
7th. That is indisputable. There's been00:05:23
a rise uh of that kind of obviously not00:05:27
nothing on the scale of this. Uh but00:05:29
there have been enough warning red flags00:05:31
for people uh in the Jewish community00:05:34
and in the Israeli government including00:05:36
Benjamin Netanyahu to raise alarm bells00:05:39
about what the government in Israel and00:05:42
you can obviously speak for them now00:05:44
what they have seen as a lack attitude00:05:48
to this issue by the Australian Prime00:05:52
Minister Anthony and his government. So00:05:54
explain why the Israeli government feels00:05:57
as you have put it betrayed.00:06:01
>> Well, it started even in the first few00:06:03
days, you know, just two days after the00:06:05
worst massacre of Jews since the00:06:07
Holocaust where we were still mourning00:06:10
and burying our dead who were, you know,00:06:13
entire families were burnt alive, little00:06:15
girls were raped trying to pick the00:06:17
pieces together. On the 9th of October,00:06:21
there were marches in Sydney that00:06:23
celebrated that massacre where people00:06:26
were chanting on the steps of the Sydney00:06:28
Opera House to gas the Jews, [ __ ] the00:06:31
Jews, all these crazy slogans that call00:06:34
for the death of Jews. You know, this00:06:37
have emboldened them to go more publicly00:06:40
and to call for violence and killing of00:06:43
the Jewish community in Sydney. And then00:06:46
it continued among for for two years00:06:49
when they called to globalize the inif00:06:52
when you say to globalize the inif the00:06:56
the Bondi massacre this is what it means00:07:00
it means to bring that hatred that00:07:02
violent those massacre you know00:07:05
beheading people what we've seen during00:07:07
the inif and to bring them to London and00:07:11
to Sydney and to New York and to Toronto00:07:14
and that's what it actually means. And00:07:16
unfortunately00:07:18
during these demonstrations and those00:07:20
chance to kill Jews, no one was00:07:22
arrested. These are hate crimes. This is00:07:25
called for for death. No one was uh00:07:28
prosecuted. No warning. So what message00:07:31
do you think that actually sent to those00:07:33
radical people who were seeking and00:07:36
chanting to kill Jews? Let let me ask00:07:38
you let me ask you if I may a difficult00:07:41
question and it is a difficult question00:07:43
but it's one that I have raised a lot00:07:46
this year since I've become increasingly00:07:48
critical of the Israeli government war00:07:51
strategy in Gaza and particularly on the00:07:53
the civilian death toll and particularly00:07:55
of children. And I've done that from the00:07:58
with the context of from after October00:08:00
the 7th. I was incredibly supportive of00:08:02
Israel's right to defend itself and will00:08:05
always defend a country's right to00:08:07
defend itself after such a an appalling00:08:08
attack. But [snorts] there is a belief00:08:11
that in the last year in particular by00:08:13
going as many people see it way over the00:08:16
top in what it's done in in Gaza by not00:08:19
allowing foreign journalists in to even00:08:21
see what's happening um with the00:08:23
slaughter, the devastation and so on00:08:25
that the Israeli government has made00:08:28
Israel and therefore by association00:08:32
Jewish people more and more vulnerable00:08:36
to hatred, to dislike, to appropri room00:08:39
and so on as a result of the00:08:41
consequences of the Israeli government00:08:43
actions. Now, to me, there's no defense00:08:46
for that, but nor can it be denied that00:08:49
that may be part of what is happening is00:08:51
that people are either genuinely enraged00:08:53
by what the Israeli government's been00:08:55
doing to the extent where they believe00:08:56
this kind of thing is justified, which I00:08:58
don't think it is, or they are using it00:09:01
as an excuse. Do you as a member of the00:09:04
Israeli government have any qualms about00:09:07
the scale of what's been going on in00:09:09
Gaza and whether that has in any way00:09:12
contributed to this anti-Israel and00:09:16
conflating into anti-Jewish sentiment00:09:19
around the world?00:09:20
>> So I I want to ask you a couple of00:09:22
questions in regards to that. The first00:09:25
one is how the hell does murdering an00:09:28
innocent 10-year-old girl in Bondai00:09:31
Beach helping contributing has anything00:09:35
to do with that?00:09:37
>> Well, it doesn't. But that's not my00:09:38
question. My question is whether you My00:09:40
question is that's not my question.00:09:43
Obviously, obviously as I said00:09:45
repeatedly when I [laughter] frame my00:09:46
question with with respect with respect00:09:48
though listen just to be clear again00:09:51
>> with respect I didn't say that I believe00:09:53
this myself but I have raised this as a00:09:56
concern that I believed that the uh00:09:59
safety of Jewish people around the world00:10:01
was potentially being endangered by the00:10:05
continued way that the Israeli00:10:06
government was prosecuting this war and00:10:08
the way it was doing it. And I simply00:10:10
ask you as a member of that government,00:10:12
do you are you comfortable that00:10:14
everything that you've done in the last00:10:17
year in particular has made Jews safe00:10:21
around the world? I00:10:23
>> I'll tell you this, Pierce. The first00:10:25
thing is that anti-semitism,00:10:28
okay, and the rise of anti-semitism has00:10:31
happened long before the 7th of October00:10:33
massacre and before this war. Jews were00:10:36
targeted, synagogues were targeted, Jews00:10:39
were attacked. There's a rise of00:10:41
anti-semitism and a huge one during the00:10:43
last decades. Has there's been a massive00:10:46
increase since the 7th of October? Yes.00:10:50
>> Even, you know, it took us three weeks00:10:52
before we actually set foot in Gaza and00:10:55
set operation to bring our hostages00:10:58
back. And during th those three weeks,00:11:01
Jewish communities were already00:11:03
targeted. There were already00:11:05
celebrations of killing of Jews in the00:11:08
streets of uh Austin, Texas and and and00:11:11
Paris and and and Toronto and so many00:11:14
other cities. And unfortunately, the 7th00:11:16
of October have emboldened00:11:19
the self-confidence00:11:22
of many of those extremists that it is a00:11:26
possible target to exterminate Jews all00:11:29
around the world. And I'll tell you00:11:31
this, yes, the conflict here, it's not00:11:35
about a territory. It is a religious and00:11:38
a cultural conflict at the core of it.00:11:41
And it is radical Islamist fighting00:11:44
against the values that Israel's00:11:46
represent. Freedom, liberty, democracy,00:11:50
women's right, freedom of expression,00:11:52
and so many more. And this is the real00:11:55
fight. And that's the real reason why00:11:57
it's coming into the streets of Sydney's00:11:59
and the streets of London, whether it's00:12:01
Manchester or uh Paris or or or or00:12:04
Bondai Beach. That's the real reason and00:12:07
that's what we really have to have a00:12:09
sincere conversation about. Now, you're00:12:12
talking about Israel and how they00:12:13
operate. Is Israel perfect? No. It's a00:12:16
war, Pierce. A war is a terrible thing.00:12:19
It's an ugly thing. We never wanted this00:12:22
war. This war was forced on us on the00:12:25
7th of October with some of the most00:12:27
monstrous actions that were committed00:12:29
against our brothers and sisters where00:12:32
they were holding for more than two00:12:33
years our family members were executed00:12:36
in the most horrible way. All of that,00:12:38
you see, I would agree with you, but I00:12:40
would agree with you that all all of00:12:41
that is Listen, as I said at the time in00:12:44
real time, all of that is outrageous and00:12:47
horrific and appalling. And I make no00:12:51
denial of anything you've just been00:12:52
saying,00:12:53
>> but the butt is an important butt, which00:12:56
is that many people feel that by killing00:13:00
over 70,000 people now, including over00:13:02
20,000 children reportedly, by blowing00:13:05
to pieces 75 80% of Gaza itself, uh, by00:13:09
waging a three-month blockade of much of00:13:12
the food and aid and so on in the early00:13:14
part of this year. But through these00:13:15
actions, many people feel that the lives00:13:19
of Jews around the world have been made00:13:21
less safe by the actions of the Israeli00:13:24
government. So before I let you go, I00:13:26
simply wonder if you as a government00:13:29
have considered that potential of the00:13:33
actions you've been taking.00:13:36
>> So the first thing, look, the war, a war00:13:38
is a difficult thing. It's a horrible00:13:40
thing. There's no war without00:13:42
casualties. It's the most violent way to00:13:46
resolve a dispute and that's why Israel00:13:49
have done everything in its capability00:13:51
to try and avoid a war and this war was00:13:54
forced on us. More so whenever there was00:13:57
a diplomatic path for Israel to try and00:14:01
reach a ceasefire or a deal to return00:14:04
our hostages to disarm Hamas. Israel00:14:07
always chose this path. It was only when00:14:09
we had no other choice that we chose00:14:12
military means. And if you want to tell00:14:14
me there is any war in the world,00:14:17
whether the UK can conduct it or America00:14:19
or or or or or Pakistan, I don't know00:14:22
that they can conduct a war without any00:14:24
casualties. I tell you, it's impossible.00:14:27
>> You know, the difference the difference00:14:29
the difference I would say. Look, you're00:14:30
talking to you're talking to somebody00:14:31
who opposed I I I led the campaign00:14:34
against the Iraq war in the UK running00:14:36
one of the papers here. So I disagree00:14:38
with what my own government has done in00:14:40
warfare from time to time and I've00:14:42
simultaneously agreed with them about00:14:44
about other things but I just I I just I00:14:47
just feel I feel that I've been00:14:50
increasingly concerned about the safety00:14:52
of Jewish people around the world and I00:14:54
feel well I'm very glad put it this way00:14:57
that there is a ceasefire now and this00:14:59
has not got worse. I'll I'll say this.00:15:02
If I look back throughout history,00:15:05
>> the Jews were always a symptom for a00:15:08
much deeper problem and disease that has00:15:11
been spreading. Even if you look on the00:15:14
Holocaust and everything that had00:15:15
happened there and and how they tried to00:15:18
exterminate Jews, how many countries00:15:21
were conquered in the process? How many00:15:23
people died in the pursuit of the00:15:26
extermination of the Jews by the Nazis?00:15:28
How many people pay the price when I00:15:31
look on my own family story like my00:15:33
mom's from Morocco and million almost a00:15:35
million Jews Arab Jews from Morocco,00:15:38
Algeria, Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan,00:15:41
Pakistan where we were expelled where00:15:44
there were pilgrims we were murdered00:15:45
there were you know the the Farhood00:15:48
pilgrims where women were raped and we00:15:50
were expelled from our homelands00:15:54
you know who are now when there's no00:15:56
Jews in those countries who are now the00:15:58
persecuted minorities. It's Christians.00:16:00
It's uh it's Cordes, it's Yazidis, it's00:16:04
all of these minorities. It's a far00:16:07
deeper problem. And what you see here00:16:09
now with that anti-semitism, those00:16:12
marches in London or Sydney, and you see00:16:15
them marching in support of terrorist00:16:18
organization of Hamas, you see them00:16:20
waving. >> Well, I think what I would say, I got00:16:22
one second. I just want to finish my00:16:24
point, please. So when you see them00:16:26
waving those flags, you see them also00:16:29
burning the British flag. You see them00:16:30
burning the Australian flag, there's a00:16:34
deep hatred to everything that Israel00:16:37
represents in the Middle East. And this00:16:40
um symptom of anti-semitism is an00:16:43
indication of something far deeper that00:16:45
is happening in Western democracy. This00:16:48
is a war between radical Islam and the00:16:51
values that we actually represent. and00:16:54
and and so yes since the 7th of October00:16:57
there has been a rise of anti-semitism00:17:00
you've seen our enemies which many of00:17:04
them all of them are extremist terrorist00:17:07
organization like kamas andbalai and00:17:09
ISIS and many others who have more00:17:11
confident whether to operate in Africa00:17:14
or in Europe or in Australia because of00:17:17
also the actions or the non-actions of00:17:21
western democracy or of the00:17:23
international community.00:17:24
>> Okay, look, I've got to leave it there.00:17:25
Um, Sharon Huskell, I really appreciate00:17:28
you joining me. I mean, again, I would00:17:30
simply repeat that that what people are00:17:32
concerned about is that the scale of00:17:34
Israel's response in Gaza has been00:17:37
contributing to the rise in00:17:39
anti-semitism. I don't know if that's00:17:41
correct or not. I know it's what a lot00:17:43
of people fear. And as somebody who has00:17:46
a lot of Jewish friends, who loves00:17:48
Jewish people, who uh has always00:17:50
supported the state of Israel and always00:17:51
will, that concerns me, you know, and00:17:53
it's not a justification for terrorism,00:17:56
which is despicable and unacceptable and00:17:59
should never happen. But I do think00:18:01
that, you know, it cannot be ignored in00:18:03
the debate, is the scale of what00:18:05
Israel's government has done in Gaza00:18:08
has, I think, made it more difficult for00:18:10
Jewish people around the world. But I've00:18:12
got to leave it there. I I appreciate00:18:13
you joining me in. You know, I I I would00:18:15
say that to all the Jewish community00:18:18
around the world, it must be terrifying00:18:20
when this kind of attack happens on00:18:23
Jewish people because of their faith as00:18:25
we saw in Bondi. And my heart goes out00:18:27
to all Jews everywhere for what happened00:18:30
and I want to make that completely00:18:31
clear. >> Thank you, Pierce. I I just want to say00:18:33
first of all, it is okay to criticize00:18:35
Israel. We can discuss it. We can debate00:18:37
it. It's okay. you know uh Israel has00:18:41
made mistake but not intentionally. If00:18:44
you look on Israel's level uh the00:18:48
threshold that we've reached during this00:18:50
war no other war in urban history or00:18:54
even conflict that you have now have00:18:56
reach reached the accuracy or the00:18:58
attempt to try and avoid civilian00:19:00
casualty. Every civilian casualty is a00:19:03
tragedy, but you cannot excuse this war00:19:07
with what is happening in the rise of00:19:09
anti-semitism and the attacks on Jewish00:19:11
communities around the world.00:19:13
>> I uh deputy foreign minister, thank you00:19:15
very much.00:19:17
>> Thank you. Well, to my panel now and I'm00:19:19
also joined by the host of Trigger with00:19:21
Samar Gil, Samar Gil, the journalist and00:19:23
commentator Sammy Hamdi, British00:19:25
Palestinian commentator Kieran Andreu,00:19:27
uh, retired Lieutenant Colonel and IDS00:19:29
spokesman Jonathan Conickers, and New00:19:31
York Post columnist and host of Pod00:19:33
Force One, Miranda Dine. Well, Miranda,00:19:35
great to have you back on Uncensored.00:19:37
Um, interesting interview I had there00:19:40
with the deputy foreign minister,00:19:41
Israel. Um, what do you think of that00:19:44
question? I mean it, you know, again, I00:19:46
have to preface it by saying that00:19:48
nothing excuses the disgusting terror00:19:50
attack we saw in Bondi Beach. You're00:19:52
Australian. I'm sure you you've felt00:19:54
very personally about this. Does00:19:57
anything that the Israeli government has00:19:59
done in the war in Gaza, do you think00:20:02
been a contributing factor to the rising00:20:05
anti-semitism around the world?00:20:08
You've seen their vibrant ads00:20:10
illuminating billboards and train00:20:11
stations for many years. Now it's time00:20:13
you actually saw the show. Shen Yund is00:20:16
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Well, I mean, this is what we hear. But00:21:08
honestly, I I'm not going to entertain00:21:10
any excuses for terrorism. There is no00:21:14
excuse. And once you go down that track00:21:16
of saying, "Oh, well, you know, they had00:21:20
it coming to them and it's their fault00:21:22
because their government, you you are00:21:25
playing into the hands of the terrorists00:21:26
and rewarding them for the utter mayhem00:21:30
and bloodshed that destroyed a a lovely00:21:33
party. uh in Bondi Beach, killed a00:21:37
10-year-old girl, uh killed, you know,00:21:40
14 other people at least, uh 15, I00:21:43
think, and has left Australia just00:21:45
reeling. I mean, that is the worst00:21:48
terrorist attack uh in Australia's00:21:50
history. And it's Sydney and Bondi Beach00:21:55
are just such peaceful places. For a a00:21:58
war a world away to come to the shores00:22:01
of Australia is beyond shocking. And you00:22:04
cannot excuse it in any way.00:22:06
>> No, I I completely agree with that. The00:22:08
the complexity of course of the00:22:10
narrative around this attack is that00:22:12
many people reacted as they always do00:22:15
when there's an attack by Islamist00:22:16
extremists by saying we've got to get00:22:19
all the Muslims out. This is the00:22:20
problem. It's about Islam as a religion.00:22:23
There's too many of them are00:22:24
radicalized. They hate the West. They00:22:26
want to kill everybody. And then we00:22:28
discover that the hero who is one of the00:22:30
great heroes that I've ever seen in any00:22:33
situation ever. This guy, you know, who00:22:36
just risks his life. And apparently his00:22:38
last words to the people he's with was,00:22:41
"I think I'm going to die. Please tell00:22:42
my family I did this to save others." Or00:22:44
something like that. Incredible. But00:22:46
goes and risks his life,00:22:48
>> gets shot repeatedly in the process.00:22:50
He's thankfully, we think, going to be00:22:52
okay. He's in hospital. Um, but he's not00:22:54
just an Australian hero. He's a global00:22:56
hero and yet he's Ahmed al-Amed. He's a00:22:59
he's came from Syria as an immigrant to00:23:02
Australia. Uh he's a Muslim himself. And00:23:05
so, you know, if you have a kick all the00:23:08
Muslims out view of this, well, what do00:23:09
you do about the hero? You saved so many00:23:11
lives because he's the very type of00:23:14
immigrant from a Muslim country like00:23:16
Syria that many of those who espouse00:23:19
that view would say shouldn't have been00:23:21
allowed in Australia in the first place.00:23:24
>> Yes. And that's really the wonderful uh00:23:27
silver lining on this story is that the00:23:30
heroism of that man and what a twist00:23:33
that he is Muslim and it's I mean it's00:23:36
almost meant to be so that that sort of00:23:39
uh reflex reaction which people often00:23:42
have after these uh terrorist attacks by00:23:45
Islamists um just is softened and you00:23:49
know Australia is a country of00:23:51
immigrants uh the highest rate00:23:54
immigration in fact in the world except00:23:56
perhaps Canada. And uh there are lots of00:24:00
Muslims there. Australians know them in00:24:02
Sydney as their neighbors. Uh this guy00:24:06
runs a fruit store. Um and they have00:24:08
good feelings towards them. And I think00:24:10
that Australians are sophisticated00:24:12
enough now to understand and do00:24:15
understand that the sort of uh00:24:18
fundamental Islam that is bred in00:24:21
radicalized mosques by radicalized imams00:24:24
and comes in seeps in that toxin from00:24:28
the internet um is just as frightening00:24:32
to regular Muslims living in Sydney do00:24:36
going about their life as it is to00:24:38
non-Muslims. Yeah.00:24:40
>> So, I think that was a good that was a00:24:42
good part of the story. I think00:24:44
>> it was an amazing thing to watch and um00:24:46
I mean already several million dollars I00:24:48
think have been raised in a gund for him00:24:50
including by leading Jews in America00:24:52
like Bill Aman which is it's an amazing00:24:55
part of this story and a heartwarming00:24:56
part of a terrible terrible atrocity.00:24:58
All right, Kieran Andre, you listened00:25:01
there to the deputy foreign minister.00:25:03
didn't really want to answer the00:25:05
question I was making, which I kept00:25:08
making sure she understood was not about00:25:11
any justification for the terror attack,00:25:13
but about whether the rising sentiment00:25:16
of anti-semitism around the world, which00:25:18
is a terrible scourge on society and00:25:21
very threatening to the 15 million Jews00:25:23
who live on this planet, whether the00:25:25
actions of the Israeli government have00:25:28
made it more or less safe to be Jewish00:25:31
around the world. What do you think?00:25:33
>> Well, well, [clears throat] first of00:25:34
all, listening to her was pretty00:25:35
difficult because the vast majority of00:25:37
what she said was a tissue of lies. Um,00:25:40
but as to your specific point, look, I'd00:25:43
make two immediate points, Pierce.00:25:46
Number one, responsibility for what00:25:48
happened, the heinous attack,00:25:51
it lies primarily with the two00:25:54
individuals, twisted, psychotic,00:25:57
anti-semitic individuals who carried out00:26:00
that disgusting attack. Let's just say00:26:02
that right off the bat because they are00:26:05
directly responsible for what happened.00:26:08
Then we move to the point you make about00:26:11
the state of Israel. What I would say is00:26:14
this. uh you know those of us who care00:26:17
about all life genuinely and equally and00:26:21
those of us who have advocated for the00:26:23
rights of people in Gaza, the rights of00:26:25
Palestinians everywhere and the right of00:26:27
people in Gaza to not be uh to not00:26:29
suffer a genocide have said for a very00:26:32
long time that there is a clear00:26:34
distinction between Jewishness and00:26:37
Zionism, that there is a clear00:26:39
distinction between Jewishness and the00:26:41
state of Israel, and that the state of00:26:43
Israel does not act on behalf of or00:26:47
speak on behalf of all Jews by00:26:49
absolutely no means. It is the it is the00:26:53
state of Israel and its outriders.00:26:56
>> Well, do you mean do you mean the00:26:57
government? I mean you because if you00:26:59
say the state of Israel that that is the00:27:00
whole of Israel, right? Right. So I00:27:02
presume what you're what you're saying00:27:04
is that whatever the current government00:27:06
is at any given time, a bit like the00:27:07
government in the UK or the government00:27:09
in America doesn't necessarily represent00:27:12
more than a slight majority of the00:27:14
country, right? They they win an00:27:15
election, maybe half nearly half the00:27:17
country votes against them. So is that00:27:18
what you're saying? Because when you say00:27:20
the state of Israel all the time, you00:27:22
could be implying all of Israel. Well,00:27:25
okay. Here we come to a distinction,00:27:27
Pier, because I watch your show00:27:28
regularly and I know that you often want00:27:29
to make the distinction between the00:27:30
government and the state and that's fair00:27:32
enough. So, I'm happy to say for the00:27:33
context in this conversation, the00:27:36
government, but I would just point out00:27:37
to you, and maybe this is a conversation00:27:38
for another time, that the state of00:27:40
Israel has always been a settler00:27:42
colonial project and that every00:27:44
government has always subscribed to the00:27:46
view that the Palestinians are a00:27:47
nuisance that need to be removed. But we00:27:49
can discuss that another time.00:27:50
>> Wait, Karen, it's actually this00:27:52
mentality that you just put on display.00:27:54
It's this mentality that is not00:27:56
separating the people and the state as00:27:57
to why the terrorist attack.00:27:59
>> I don't intend to interrupt you.00:28:00
>> Okay. Okay.00:28:02
>> I just want to finish my last point.00:28:03
>> Finish your point then tomorrow I can00:28:05
respond.00:28:06
>> The state of Israel or let's say the00:28:08
government of Israel and successive00:28:10
governments of Israel because I can find00:28:11
you evidence of every single government00:28:12
in Israel saying this tries to conflate00:28:15
Judaism Jewishness with Israel. And so00:28:18
when the government of Israel commits00:28:20
acts of genocide, of course that then uh00:28:25
opens the ground, opens the space for00:28:27
psychotic, deranged anti-semites to say,00:28:30
look, even the government of Israel is00:28:32
saying it, they are one and the same. We00:28:34
know they're not one and the same. But00:28:36
as I I repeat my my my initial point,00:28:38
responsibility lies with the individuals00:28:41
who carried out this atrocity.00:28:43
>> Okay. tomorrow.00:28:45
>> This type of attack doesn't just happen00:28:47
overnight. Australia was at a boiling00:28:49
point because of months, give it years00:28:52
of unchecked anti-semitism that was00:28:55
happening on the streets. The prime00:28:57
minister was remaining pretty silent00:28:59
about it until today. And this is now00:29:02
what's happened. You don't just grab a00:29:04
gun and start shooting Jews like fish in00:29:07
a barrel because you're a psycho and you00:29:09
just feel like it. This is an sort of00:29:12
the amalgamation of a really really dark00:29:16
and insidious Islamic extremism that has00:29:18
kind of come into Australia and started00:29:20
rotting it. I mean, I can't think of a00:29:23
more Australian place for something so00:29:25
unAustralian to happen. And it's just00:29:27
ridiculous that you would say, "Oh,00:29:28
there's no difference between the state00:29:29
and the people." That is precisely what00:29:31
has happened where they have bunched the00:29:33
state and the people together and now00:29:35
children are dead. Kieran,00:29:37
>> can I come back on that just briefly?00:29:38
I'm saying the opposite to you. I'm00:29:40
saying first of all that there is a00:29:42
clear distinction between the state of00:29:45
Israel. It is a state and the00:29:47
individuals that live maybe live in that00:29:49
state or identify as Israeli in the00:29:52
world or are Jewish. There is a00:29:53
distinction. Your point is that there is00:29:56
no distinction that Zionism is Judaism00:29:58
and vice versa.00:30:00
>> This means believing in the right to is00:30:02
for Israel to exist. I mean I don't want00:30:04
to go over it again and again but you00:30:05
keep acting as if it's some sort of00:30:07
>> there's no right for a state exist. Let00:30:08
me go to somebody who's actually in the00:30:10
state of Israel, which is Jonathan00:30:11
Krius. Jonathan, welcome back to00:30:13
Uncensored. Um, again, let's just let's00:30:16
just make it clear that that what00:30:19
happened was one of the most disgusting00:30:21
attacks in recent times on a group of00:30:24
people, including a Holocaust survivor,00:30:27
a 10-year-old girl, innocent Jews, going00:30:30
about celebrating Hanukkah on a beach on00:30:32
one of the safest beaches imaginable in00:30:35
the middle of Bondi in Sydney. I've been00:30:37
there. It's a fun, happy, sun-kissed00:30:40
place that will now be forever scarred00:30:43
by what happened there. And they were00:30:45
just intent, this father and son uh pair00:30:47
of extremists on killing as many00:30:50
innocent people as they could possibly00:30:51
kill. First of all, you know, we've00:30:53
talked a lot in the last two years. Um,00:30:56
what was your reaction on a personal00:30:58
level to what happened?00:31:03
Yeah. Hello again, peers and hello to my00:31:06
fellow panel members. Um, I I visited00:31:10
Bondai Beach for the first time a few00:31:12
months ago and it was part of a speaking00:31:15
tour in Australia. I met with Jewish00:31:18
communities in as you said very00:31:20
correctly Melbourne and Sydney and I00:31:22
spoke with politicians in Canra. And00:31:24
when I interacted with Jews there, uh,00:31:28
my impression was of people who knew00:31:31
that they were living in paradise, which00:31:33
I think modern Australia is. It's a00:31:36
beautiful country that works well.00:31:38
People are nice and friendly and00:31:40
respectful of others. But the Jews00:31:42
there, many of the Jews, not all of00:31:44
them, but many of the Jews told me that,00:31:46
listen, we feel exposed. We are afraid00:31:49
to have any external sign of Jewishness.00:31:54
We are afraid when we send our kids to00:31:56
the Jewish school and we are concerned00:31:59
about our safety when we're out and00:32:01
about on the streets and uh when we are00:32:03
at synagogue. And one of the main00:32:05
reasons is because law enforcement,00:32:08
police officers simply stopped doing00:32:11
their job and politicians gave tailwind00:32:16
to extremists who were taking over the00:32:18
streets in Australia. And I'll remind00:32:21
everybody watching who's trying to00:32:23
whitewash Islamist terrorism that00:32:26
Palestinians, Hamas supporters, Muslims,00:32:30
and other people were out chanting, "Gas00:32:33
the Jews!" in Sydney by the opera00:32:36
building on October 8th. And that was00:32:39
before Israel had done anything in00:32:41
retaliation to the atrocities that Hamas00:32:45
perpetrated on October 7. And then those00:32:48
marches were were allowed to continue00:32:51
every Sunday in Melbourne in the local00:32:54
parliament office and multiple times in00:32:57
various locations in Sydney and in00:33:00
various Jewish neighborhoods. There have00:33:02
been at least 20 attacks, hate crimes on00:33:06
Jewish locations in Australia. Most, if00:33:09
not all of them have gone completely00:33:11
unanswered by the Australian00:33:13
authorities. And Jewish people, what00:33:15
they've been saying is we are exposed.00:33:18
Our blood is now okay to be hunted. And00:33:22
yes, there's no empirical00:33:25
connection that proves that these two00:33:28
Islamists or this ISIS inspired00:33:31
murderers, the son and father duo that00:33:35
murdered 15 people, that they were00:33:38
directly linked. But I think that the00:33:40
atmosphere matters. I think that when00:33:42
the Australian government goes ahead00:33:45
while Israel is fighting a war against00:33:47
Hamas and says we are going to put our00:33:50
chips behind Hamas and draw a direct00:33:54
connection between October 7 and00:33:56
Palestinian statethood and we are going00:33:58
to be virtue signaling that we are oh so00:34:01
benign progressive and developed and we00:34:03
are going to put our diplomatic support00:34:06
behind Hamas and the Palestinians. that00:34:10
is an enabler for terrorism. And I00:34:12
remember myself saying it in the Grand00:34:15
Synagogue of Sydney and I remember00:34:17
speaking about it with Australian00:34:20
officials in Canra saying that my dear00:34:23
fellow members of a democracy, you are00:34:26
creating a very problematic situation00:34:29
that is enabling and legalizing and00:34:33
allowing the killing or the targeting of00:34:36
your citizens. They are first and00:34:38
foremost Australians. They are loyal00:34:40
patriots. They pay their taxes. They're00:34:43
proud of their country. They love their00:34:44
country. And I think my response was00:34:47
sadly I was not surprised. This was in00:34:50
the works. This was coming. And I think00:34:53
that Australian authorities have a lot00:34:55
to answer for.00:34:56
>> Okay. Um Sammy Handy, let me bring you00:34:58
in here. uh you know that there's a lot00:35:01
of people who think that there are from00:35:05
one and a half to two billion Muslims00:35:06
depending on what figures you want to00:35:08
you want to believe but obviously a00:35:10
massively larger number of Muslims in00:35:12
the world than the 15 million Jews and00:35:15
that it doesn't take a big percentage of00:35:19
those of the Muslim population of the00:35:21
world to be radicalized against Jews and00:35:24
want to kill them all for it to become a00:35:26
very terrifying place quite quickly to00:35:28
be Jewish. the the world and a small00:35:30
place. What do we do about this? I mean,00:35:32
clearly this father and son, they've00:35:35
been in Australia. They don't appear to00:35:37
have sent too many red flags. The son00:35:40
apparently a few years ago hung out with00:35:41
some slightly dodgy people, but it00:35:43
certainly wasn't like he was running00:35:45
around with ISIS flags or anything. Um,00:35:47
the father was part of a shooting club.00:35:49
He seemed to assimilated pretty well.00:35:51
You know, it's not like it was an00:35:52
obvious thing. It may turn out that00:35:53
there were obvious red flags, but as00:35:55
things look at the moment, it doesn't00:35:57
appear to be glaringly obvious that00:35:59
they've been radicalized. What What do00:36:02
we do here? What do you feel is the best00:36:05
way to try and stop this kind of00:36:08
radicalization where people just00:36:10
suddenly decide I'm going to be ISIS and00:36:12
kill every Jew I can see?00:36:15
>> P, thanks very much for having me. I00:36:16
think you've tried to bring the00:36:19
discussion to the crux of the issue. I00:36:21
think first and foremost there's no00:36:22
justification for what happened. It's a00:36:24
heinous and disgusting crime that took00:36:26
place and my thoughts and prayers go out00:36:28
to the families of the victims00:36:30
themselves. And I think that when you00:36:32
the question that you're asking is are00:36:34
the events in Gaza influencing in any00:36:35
way whatsoever the rise in anti-semitism00:36:37
and indeed the potential for these acts00:36:40
to take place. What I00:36:42
>> well well that's partly it. I mean I00:36:43
would say that it's it's it's a double00:36:44
pron. One is that which is the current00:36:48
events of the last two years. Have they00:36:49
made it more or less safe to be Jewish00:36:52
around the world? But secondly, this was00:36:54
all going on for a long time before. I00:36:56
mean, ISIS and uh other groups like it00:36:58
were attacking and targeting Jews for00:37:00
several decades in this century. There's00:37:03
been a rising tide of anti-semitism and00:37:06
violence against Jews in the last 20 odd00:37:08
years. So, it's it's two-pronged. One,00:37:11
it was going on a long time before this.00:37:13
And has the war in in a horrible way00:37:16
been a catalyst for it to be00:37:18
accelerated?00:37:19
>> And and I and I think that you've hit00:37:20
the nail on the head, particularly when00:37:22
you bring up ISIS, who've killed far00:37:23
more Muslims than any other religion on00:37:26
this earth. Huge victims, you numbers of00:37:28
victims that were committed by ISIS. I00:37:30
remember when ISIS used to say that, oh,00:37:32
we're going to go towards Israel and the00:37:34
like. And there was this famous meme00:37:35
that said, okay, but you guys are in00:37:37
Iraq and Syria, Israel is that way. Why00:37:38
do you keep killing all these Muslims00:37:40
over here? The reason why I mentioned is00:37:42
that when you look at the world as it is00:37:44
today, think about what everybody is00:37:45
seeing on their phones on a daily basis.00:37:47
They're seeing six-year-old Sidra with00:37:49
her legs blown off and the blast of the00:37:50
bomb means that her corpse is hanging on00:37:52
the wall inside Gaza itself. And then we00:37:55
have people coming out and saying, "This00:37:56
is justified. This is a war. Casualties00:37:58
happen in war." We see Hindra, a00:38:00
six-year-old girl who's in a car00:38:02
desperately calling for help, saying,00:38:03
"I'm scared. My family around me are00:38:05
dead." The ambulance comes to rescue00:38:06
her. The Israelis bomb the ambulance and00:38:08
she dies surrounded by the corpses of00:38:10
her family in the cold. You see, a00:38:12
5-year-old girl being hugged by her00:38:13
grandfather,00:38:15
the soul of my soul. And everybody is00:38:17
looking at these images one by one and00:38:18
the destruction and Shifer Hospital00:38:20
where a certain XIDF spokesman goes in00:38:23
and makes up a video and tries to show00:38:24
that there is some sort of terrorism00:38:26
that is taking place and the like that00:38:28
somehow justifies what's happening to00:38:30
the Palestinians themselves. And the00:38:32
reality is that P this does create this00:38:35
I didn't interrupt you. If you could00:38:36
give me some time just to speak. I've00:38:37
been waiting for a while to speak. My00:38:39
dear friend, you will have the the the00:38:41
ability to talk. You you will have the00:38:43
right to talk to. But if I could just00:38:45
finish the image, Jonathan, let him00:38:47
finish. Let him finish, please. If you00:38:51
can respond00:38:53
something, if if you don't mind, just00:38:55
one second. Jonathan, you will have time00:38:56
to speak and you've been here many more00:38:57
times than I have. The reality is that00:38:59
when people are seeing all of these00:39:00
images in America, in Paris, in Berlin,00:39:02
and the like, and they're asking peers,00:39:04
they're saying, "What crime did that00:39:05
child kill?" You were with Tucker00:39:07
Carlson peers the other day who said to00:39:08
you, "What crime did that child commit00:39:10
that she should be killed? What crime00:39:12
did the child, six-year-old who's now in00:39:13
DHA, having been evacuated from Gaza who00:39:16
has three limbs blown off and has only00:39:18
two fingers left in hand? What crime did00:39:20
she commit whereby she should have been00:39:22
bombed and been in this particular00:39:24
situation that she finds herself in?"00:39:25
And when they turn on Pier Morgan00:39:27
uncensored and Pier by the way I will00:39:28
say your tweet yesterday was phenomenal00:39:30
when you called him the Bondi hero00:39:32
trying to cut the crossroads in which00:39:34
people were trying to stoke hatred and00:39:35
the like but when people come on and00:39:37
they turn on the news and they find00:39:38
justifications for what's happening they00:39:40
find people saying listen it is what it00:39:42
is you just have to get over it it's00:39:43
natural for hatred to fester in such00:39:46
hearts that results in a heightened00:39:48
sense of hatred not just anti-semitism00:39:50
but Islamophobia and hate against people00:39:52
around the world what was magnificent00:39:54
about what Ahmed Ahmed did, he rejected00:39:57
that hatred. He rejected that hatred00:40:00
that fed in people's hearts. He said,00:40:02
"This is not the world I want to be part00:40:03
of. This is not the world as it should00:40:05
be. I believe in a better world, even if00:40:08
it is these wretched individuals who00:40:10
claim to be Muslim, who are shooting00:40:11
Jews who are innocently celebrating00:40:13
their Hanukkah. I reject a world where00:40:15
this is Muslim versus Jew. I believe in00:40:17
a world where there is genuine humanity.00:40:19
And now that is the video that's going00:40:21
viral. That's the video pierce that you00:40:22
spread. That's what you called him the00:40:24
Bondi hero. He's given hope where the00:40:26
Israelis and the extremists on all00:40:28
religions were decimating that hope.00:40:31
When we see those images of those 80% of00:40:34
Gaza destroyed peers and you're seeing00:40:36
it to the images and the UN resolutions00:40:38
keep getting vetoed. The ICC says arrest00:40:40
the war criminals and we receive news00:40:42
that the British government wants to00:40:44
defund ICC because they won't remove the00:40:46
Netanyahu arrest warrant. The ICJ says00:40:48
there is a genocide. Pier, I'll just00:40:49
finish on this point. Pers, we're human.00:40:52
We have hearts. It doesn't matter what00:40:54
color or religion you are. When you see00:40:56
those images, peers, do they not rip00:40:57
your heart out? Pier, do they not make00:40:59
you weep at what crime did this PERSON00:41:02
COMMIT THAT JUSTIFIES THIS sort of00:41:04
destruction? And I will say this, I will00:41:06
not allow the tragedy of these innocent00:41:09
victims in Bondai Beach to be00:41:11
politicized. We should do them, we do00:41:13
them a disservice,00:41:14
>> but you can actually you can actually,00:41:15
you know what, you can weep as I did00:41:17
over the appalling scenes on October the00:41:20
7th. Of course, you of course00:41:23
>> and you can weep at some of the and the00:41:25
civilian cond00:41:28
weep over some of the appalling images00:41:29
of the suffering of the children in Gaza00:41:31
and you can weep at the appalling images00:41:33
that came out from Bondai Beach. It's00:41:35
all it's all appalling. Miranda Devine,00:41:38
let me bring you back in here.00:41:40
>> This has been I mean this for the whole00:41:42
of this century really since 911. You00:41:46
know, I know you spent a lot of time in00:41:47
in New York, and I was in New York about00:41:49
a week after 911, and I remember how00:41:52
traumatic that was for New Yorkers, for00:41:54
Americans, and then we had the war on00:41:56
terror with all the collateral fallout00:41:59
from that. And now we've got to this00:42:02
dark place where even somewhere like00:42:04
Bondi Beach becomes a massacre site.00:42:07
What's the answer to all this, do you00:42:09
think?00:42:11
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Well, I just look back on the last two00:43:01
years in Australia and the stories that00:43:04
I'm told by Jewish friends who no longer00:43:08
feel safe in Sydney, which was a safe00:43:10
haven for many Holocaust survivors and00:43:13
now their descendants. And uh they felt00:43:17
that they had a government that was uh00:43:20
playing footsies with the anti-semites.00:43:22
And anti-semitism is really due hatred00:43:25
and hatred of anybody is terrible. And00:43:28
the government of Australia uh because00:43:31
of its own cynical uh political00:43:34
electoral decisions because uh many of00:43:37
their ministers rely on those00:43:40
electorates that are uh in south00:43:42
southwest of Sydney that are mainly00:43:45
Muslim. And so, uh, for those reasons,00:43:49
they were loathed to do the right thing00:43:51
and stand up for the Jews who were being00:43:54
spat on and, uh, assaulted and00:43:58
firebombed and graffitied. And you know,00:44:02
as we were just saying, the memorial00:44:04
service a day after uh the October 700:44:07
atrocity in Israel, uh we had people00:44:10
invade it and say, "G the Jews, f the00:44:13
Jews, uh from the river to the sea, you00:44:16
know, globalized the interifart." Well,00:44:18
they globalized the interifart uh in00:44:21
Bondi Beach on the weekend. And that is00:44:24
not what Australians want. And I think00:44:26
that the government of Australia has00:44:28
been complicit because it has appeased00:44:31
the hatred and you cannot do that. Um00:44:34
for instance uh Anthony Albani the prime00:44:37
minister uh he was asked and begged by00:44:41
Jews in Australia who were being um00:44:44
attacked and fearful for their lives uh00:44:47
and to to have an envoy for00:44:50
anti-semitism. Well, he did that, but he00:44:53
also at the same time uh put up an envoy00:44:56
for Islamophobia.00:44:58
It's not Islamophobia that is the00:45:00
problem. Islamophobia is a madeup term00:45:03
to try and soften the anger that people00:45:06
had uh against the Islamist attacks00:45:10
after 9/11. And many Australians were00:45:13
victims that day and in subsequent00:45:15
terrorist attacks. Uh and yet Australia00:45:18
is still was still a very harmonious00:45:21
country and uh you had uh people like00:45:24
our hero um who lived happily among his00:45:29
neighbors and felt strongly enough that00:45:31
he wanted to go and risk his own life to00:45:34
save them. So that's the way Australia00:45:36
has been. Islamophobia is not a problem.00:45:39
And yet there we have the government00:45:42
appeasing a small amount of Jew haters.00:45:46
That's all we can call.00:45:47
>> Yeah. You know, you know, Miranda, I I00:45:49
remember after October the 7th, I00:45:52
remember either the Saturday or Sunday,00:45:55
so the day after or the two days after,00:45:58
walking down Kensington High Street in00:46:00
West London, and there was a mass crowd00:46:04
spilling out into the street, several00:46:06
thousand people, many of And I I assumed00:46:09
because it was near the Israeli embassy,00:46:12
I assumed this was in support of the00:46:15
victims.00:46:16
It was the opposite. It was a pro00:46:19
Palestinian march, but it was striking00:46:23
the number of pro Hamas flags that were00:46:26
being brazenly waved around, the00:46:28
chanting that was going on. And I was00:46:30
really shocked to my call that that was00:46:33
happening within 24 to 36 hours in a00:46:36
street near me uh in London. And that's00:46:40
why I think that those who say this has00:46:42
all been a reaction to what the Israeli00:46:44
government's done, that isn't true00:46:45
either. You know, a lot of people were00:46:48
waiting for a catalyst to show how they00:46:51
really felt. And if you support Hamas,00:46:53
you you just want to kill all the Jews.00:46:55
That's their that's their mantra. Let me00:46:56
let me bring uh I will come to you,00:46:58
Jonathan, but Kieran, you want to come00:46:59
in here?00:47:00
>> Well, first of all, I want to say very00:47:03
directly to Jonathan00:47:05
down the line from Tel Aviv there.00:47:07
Jonathan is a spokesperson for the IDF.00:47:10
>> No, he's not anymore.00:47:11
>> Well, he was a very senior spokesperson00:47:14
for the IDF. It's irrelevant. It's00:47:15
relevant.00:47:16
>> It's not relevant whether he currently00:47:17
is or not.00:47:18
>> Well, he was a very senior00:47:19
>> Say what you want. I'm listening.00:47:21
>> No, that's fine. I will. Thank you. A00:47:22
very senior IDF spokesperson, which00:47:25
means that he has been directly00:47:27
responsible for many, many deaths and00:47:31
much murder of Palestinians, whether it00:47:33
was after October 7th or before. Because00:47:35
by the way, and this relates to what I00:47:36
wanted to say, Pier, this conversation00:47:38
is in many ways astonishing. It's as if00:47:42
history began on October 7th. And I know00:47:45
that many people on this call would like00:47:47
that to be the case, but it's not the00:47:49
case. The reality is that Israel has00:47:52
been slowly destroying Palestine and00:47:56
Palestinian statehood and Palestinian00:47:57
life, much of it completely innocent,00:48:00
for almost 80 years. And so to have us00:48:05
here, I mean, we need to take I think00:48:07
there needs to be a bit of perspective.00:48:08
It's astonishing to me that we're trying00:48:10
to say that this unlin psychopath00:48:14
anti-semite and his son in Australia00:48:18
cruy and abominably picking off Jewish00:48:21
people on Bondai Beach is somehow00:48:24
related to people waving Palestinian00:48:26
flags and opposing the genocide that00:48:29
Jonathan helped evidence of I mean look00:48:34
Jonathan I'll bring you in but what I00:48:35
would say is actually it's not a massive00:48:37
leap is If people are if we tolerate on00:48:41
the streets of London and Sydney and New00:48:44
York, if we tolerate people supporting00:48:47
prescribed terror groups like Hamas,00:48:49
which a lot of them have been doing, if00:48:51
we tolerate that, you are sending a00:48:53
message to the world that that's okay.00:48:56
>> Pier, there is >> but they're a prescribed terror group.00:48:58
They are banned in this country.00:48:59
>> I understand that publicly supporting a00:49:02
mass in this country is a criminal00:49:03
offense. But Pierce, okay, but you are00:49:05
doing mental gymnastics with respect. I00:49:08
am Well, you are in the sense that first00:49:09
of all, I have never I'm I'm half00:49:12
Palestinian. I've never supported Hamas.00:49:14
Neither is any member of my family. And00:49:16
by the way, a point I always want to00:49:17
make to you, Pierce, is well, look00:49:19
what's happening in the West Bank.00:49:20
There's never been Hamas there. So, the00:49:22
idea that it's all because October 7th00:49:24
happened and Hamas is clearly palpable00:49:26
nonsense. But but let me just briefly00:49:29
say it is that the evidence that people00:49:32
on the streets of London and Sydney and00:49:34
other places are supporting Hamas on00:49:36
mass doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.00:49:38
There are the over vast vast00:49:41
overwhelming share of people showing up00:49:43
on the streets with Palestine flags are00:49:46
totally Jewish inclusive anti Jonathan.00:49:49
Come in.00:49:52
>> Yeah. So I I think we can cut through00:49:55
the a lot of the lies and the00:49:58
allegations and I think it's really00:50:00
ridiculous to blame me about anything.00:50:04
You try to normalize the terms here and00:50:06
to try to cement reality as if Israel00:50:10
has perpetrated any highness crimes.00:50:12
That is nonsense. That's a blatant lie.00:50:15
It is just about nobody believes that00:50:18
anymore as much of a lie just talking to00:50:21
yourself. I don't care what you think. I00:50:24
don't care what you think. I don't care00:50:25
what you think and I didn't interrupt00:50:27
you. >> I didn't interrupt you while you were00:50:29
spewing your little nasty lies and00:50:31
whitewashing Hamas and Palestinian00:50:33
terrorist as you were spinning your00:50:36
>> spinning your tales of victimhood of00:50:39
which Palestinians definitely are the00:50:41
best in the world. But I'll tell you00:50:43
something. I can understand your00:50:45
frustration since you claim that you are00:50:48
half Palestinian. I don't know what the00:50:49
other half is and frankly it doesn't00:50:51
matter. Since you say that you're half00:50:54
Palestinian, since you're half00:50:55
Palestinian, I can understand your00:50:57
frustration because you and your00:50:59
forefathers had an opportunity to estate00:51:03
and you and your forefathers missed that00:51:06
opportunity and you and your people are00:51:09
the only ethnic group that have been00:51:12
given continuous chances time and time00:51:15
again to make peace, to end the00:51:18
conflict. I've heard it all. you and00:51:19
your people have done. Everybody knows00:51:21
that you're violence. That is that is00:51:24
what you people have done. Israeli00:51:27
governments have offered Palestinians00:51:29
four peace deals. Four times have00:51:32
Israeli prime ministers made sure00:51:35
proposals heard you well by the end of00:51:38
this. We've heard this00:51:42
here's land here's a capital and let's00:51:44
end the conflict. And what have your00:51:46
representatives done? They have said00:51:49
something that isn't enough. We want it00:51:52
all. We want it from the river. Let me00:51:54
bring in that is what you and your00:51:56
people continue to ask.00:51:58
>> Okay. Let me bring in some more. Look,00:51:59
you you were born in Melbourne. This is00:52:01
a very personal thing to have happened.00:52:04
Uh I think to everyone from Australia,00:52:05
it's a small country, only 27 million00:52:07
people, about a third of the size of the00:52:09
UK um and a 12th of the size of the00:52:12
United States. When you get an attack00:52:13
like this, it attacks the psyche of the00:52:15
country. When you talk to people back in00:52:18
Australia, what is the mood? You think00:52:20
>> Australia will never be the same, Pers,00:52:23
genuinely after this? Uh, look, I mean,00:52:26
anti-semitism is rife. I'm with you. I00:52:29
don't think all Muslims should be00:52:30
deported tomorrow. But I think that we00:52:33
have for too long, you know, walked on00:52:35
eggshells around Islamist extremism. And00:52:39
unfortunately, yes, as Miranda says, it00:52:42
has turned up on the shores of00:52:43
Australia. Now, countries like the UAE,00:52:46
Jordan, Egypt, they don't put up with00:52:48
Islamist extremism. They shut it down00:52:51
and lock it up immediately. And the00:52:53
West,00:52:54
>> these authoritarian regimes are your00:52:55
models.00:52:56
>> They're not our model, but for for too00:52:59
long, the West has pussyfooted around.00:53:01
>> A democracy is supposed to follow Abu00:53:02
Dhabi. A democracy is supposed to follow00:53:04
a man and supposed to follow Cece in00:53:06
Cairo, who has thousands of people in00:53:07
his prisons, torturing them left, right,00:53:09
center by amnesty and human rights00:53:10
watch. Muhammad bin Z who's committing00:53:12
[laughter] a genocide in Sudan to00:53:14
Muhammad bin Z who slaughtering in Sudan00:53:18
societ00:53:20
you've become with British people if00:53:22
Muslims do France you didn't call00:53:25
Germany you didn't call any of these00:53:26
European state democracy because00:53:29
why can't brutal regimes00:53:32
>> before I came into let her answer please00:53:35
>> before I came into the studio the FBI00:53:37
revealed that they have just foiled four00:53:40
plots of Islamist extremism that were00:53:42
planned for New Year's Eve in Los00:53:44
Angeles. This is an issue that is00:53:47
wrapping its ugly fingers around the00:53:49
West and it's going to take over if we00:53:52
don't have a hardlined approach to it.00:53:53
And the reason I don't mention Germany00:53:54
or France or any of those countries is00:53:56
because they also have a soft touch00:53:58
approach to it. And look what's happened00:53:59
there. It is not guns as Anthony00:54:02
Albenezy wants you to think that have00:54:04
infiltrated this. We have the strictest00:54:06
gun laws uh in some of the strictest gun00:54:08
laws in the world. Actually, it is00:54:10
Islamist extremism that plows, you know,00:54:13
cars into Christmas markets, that drives00:54:15
planes into buildings. That is what is00:54:18
rotting the West.00:54:19
>> That is true. I mean, I don't think guns00:54:20
are irrelevant to this story because he00:54:22
did have six, the father. Yeah. And if00:54:24
the if it turns out I mean we'll have to00:54:26
wait for the investigation but if it00:54:28
turns out that the son they're trying to00:54:30
downplay this but if he was already on00:54:33
the authorities's radar for associating00:54:35
with people who they sort of been a bit00:54:38
vague about what they mean but with you00:54:40
know dodgy people. um if it turns out00:54:44
those people were part of the00:54:45
radicalization and his father had six00:54:48
firearms in a country where that is00:54:50
really difficult to do then I don't00:54:52
think you can rule it out because I00:54:54
always say Australia is a template for00:54:56
how to respond to mass shootings00:54:59
actually because after because after I00:55:01
mean I'll bring I'll bring let me bring00:55:02
Miranda back in here because you will00:55:03
know this but you know it's interesting00:55:05
to me00:55:06
>> one comment about one second one second00:55:08
you know the UK and and Australia were00:55:10
once countries where everybody body had00:55:12
a gun. I say this to my American friends00:55:14
and I say it, you know, with I waged my00:55:17
war with NRA. It didn't work, right?00:55:19
They don't want to hear from a Brit what00:55:21
they should do with their culture. It's00:55:22
down to Americans to work it out and I00:55:24
respect that. But I do know that00:55:26
Australians and the Brits always used to00:55:28
all have guns if you go back 150 years00:55:31
or whatever it is. And then we sort of00:55:33
gave them up and so it's shocking when00:55:35
these things happen. When Dumb Blaine00:55:37
happened in 96 around the same time as00:55:39
the Hobart massacre, both countries00:55:42
brought in draconian laws about guns.00:55:46
And it is surprising in this case if00:55:48
there was any doubt about this boy when00:55:50
he was 1920 potentially getting in with00:55:53
the wrong crowd uh that his father had00:55:56
six guns. I mean, I don't think that's00:55:58
an irrelevant fact. What do you think?00:56:02
Well, I mean, the draconian gun laws00:56:04
have certainly worked to keep guns out00:56:07
of the hands of law-abiding Australians,00:56:10
but uh the gang bangers and uh same00:56:14
people, Islamist fundamentalists uh out00:56:17
in southwest Sydney have plenty of guns.00:56:20
Uh just last month uh someone a cop I00:56:24
know sent me footage of an AK-4700:56:27
gunfight 50 rounds uh from an automatic00:56:31
weapon fired into a residential house.00:56:35
So um the the gangs have got you know00:56:37
it's like new00:56:38
>> but there were only I mean there were00:56:39
only in the last recorded figures00:56:41
Miranda there were only 31 gun murders00:56:44
in Australia00:56:45
>> between June 23 and June 24. That's the00:56:48
official Australian data on gun murders.00:56:51
In the same comparable period of the00:56:54
whole of 2023, according to the Pew00:56:57
Researchers, there were 18,00000:57:00
gun murders in America, and it's only 1200:57:03
times the size. So, America has 54000:57:07
times the gun violence of Australia. And00:57:10
in fact, gun violence in Australia, like00:57:12
the UK, is negligible.00:57:15
Well, I I'll just say it's like New York00:57:17
City where uh we have very strong gun00:57:21
laws. No one can have a gun uh you know00:57:24
under uh easy circumstances and yet00:57:27
they're in the Bronx and in the outer00:57:29
BBS. Uh you have gun battles and murders00:57:32
with guns going on all the time. So, uh,00:57:35
the fact that that these, uh, terrorists00:57:39
on the weekend in Bondi happen to have00:57:41
six shotguns, um, does not surprise me00:57:45
because it's the criminals in Australia00:57:47
that now have guns.00:57:48
>> Pier, can I make just make a point here?00:57:50
There was there was a six-year-old boy00:57:52
called Just Jonathan, just give me one00:57:54
second. There was a six-year-old boy00:57:56
called Wadier in America. As a result of00:57:58
all that was being said coming out of00:57:59
Israel, his neighbor became so00:58:01
radicalized, took a knife and stabbed00:58:02
this boy 10 times and killed him. And00:58:04
the boy let was in the arms of this00:58:06
individual and he said, "Oh Lord, what00:58:08
happened?" When they talk about00:58:09
Albanesei being soft, Albanesei kicked00:58:11
out a young senator called Fatima00:58:12
Payman. Drove her out of the party00:58:14
because she called it a genocide and she00:58:16
called for the recognition of a00:58:17
Palestinian state. Albenezi said,00:58:19
"There's no way I'm doing it." And he00:58:20
drove Fatima Payman out. Albanesei ended00:58:22
up cancing visas for pro Palestinians00:58:24
who were coming trying to show images of00:58:26
genocide to Australia at the whim of an00:58:28
Israeli Zionist lobby that was coming00:58:30
out and saying we don't want this in00:58:31
Australia. And when Albanesei does all00:58:33
of that, we have three guests here who00:58:35
are now complaining that Albanesei00:58:36
refuses to see to what the Israelis are00:58:38
doing. But the point that I want to make00:58:39
here is this.00:58:40
>> Can I ask you a question about the00:58:41
genocide? And it's this. It's a tough00:58:43
direct question. If Israel is waging a00:58:46
genuine genocide, that means they want00:58:49
the total elimination of all00:58:50
Palestinians. So far, they've killed00:58:53
70,00000:58:55
people in Gaza over a two and a right00:58:59
according to the Hamas Health Authority00:59:01
whose numbers whose numbers have00:59:02
previously been accepted by the Israeli00:59:05
government. So, let's put that in00:59:06
context. But that is out of a population00:59:08
of over two million is a long way from00:59:12
eradicating a population. And yet they00:59:15
have the means to do it. It's why I've00:59:16
always quibbled with the use of the word00:59:19
genocide because if Israel's government00:59:21
was genuinely being genocidal, why00:59:24
wouldn't they kill everybody?00:59:26
>> Just could I just say just one thing?00:59:28
>> It's a simple question, but I've never00:59:29
heard I've never heard a very convincing00:59:31
answer.00:59:32
>> Sure. Pier, what Hitler did to the Jews00:59:34
is a genocide. What he did was a00:59:36
horrific holocaust. The way00:59:37
>> And he killed six millions.00:59:39
>> Exactly. But six million more people.00:59:41
>> But thankfully he didn't kill all of00:59:43
them. Thankfully there were there were00:59:45
many thousands that survived. Thankfully00:59:47
there were many of those who man00:59:48
survived to tell the tale to tell us00:59:50
never again so that we would not be able00:59:51
to do it again. So it's almost00:59:54
irrelevant the point about how many do00:59:55
they need to kill. Hitler didn't need to00:59:57
kill all of them for it to be a00:59:58
genocide. He didn't need to gas all of01:00:00
them to be a genocide. Kieran, here you01:00:01
go. Uh I just briefly before no doubt01:00:03
Jonathan wants to come back in and I do01:00:05
also Pierce want to respond to what01:00:07
Jonathan said since he felt bold enough01:00:08
to talk about my forefathers but briefly01:00:12
first of all your definition is slightly01:00:14
off Pierce it's not the eradication of01:00:16
an entire people it's an attempt to01:00:19
eradicate01:00:20
>> not an attempt no an intent not attempt01:00:22
>> an attempt in the two different things01:00:24
>> which the ICJ01:00:26
attempt means you try and do something01:00:27
>> which the ICJ finds there probable cause01:00:29
intent means you are intent on actually01:00:33
annihilating a population. ICJ there is01:00:36
no international court that has actually01:00:42
knows about the idea of the genocide01:00:46
that legal scholars go by says is an01:00:49
attempt to uh eradicate a people in part01:00:53
or in whole. And of course intent Pierce01:00:55
you're right intent is a part of that.01:00:58
Now, there's plenty of intent, evidence01:01:00
of intent on the part of Israel's01:01:01
political class. We don't even need to01:01:02
go into01:01:04
>> the But so,01:01:05
>> no, there isn't.01:01:06
>> Oh, come off it, Jonathan. You are bad01:01:08
at lying. Evidence is you need to go01:01:10
back to lying.01:01:11
>> There's propaganda01:01:14
and there's white people like there's no01:01:17
evidence and then you can come back and01:01:18
tell all the porkies you like. Let me01:01:20
just01:01:21
>> I just want to say this for half an hour01:01:22
now. You've been just saying for half an01:01:24
hour,01:01:25
>> Jonathan.01:01:26
>> Yeah, sure. Notice everybody watching01:01:28
this, notice how Jonathan immediately01:01:31
tried to pivot away from the substance01:01:33
of a conversation, which is the01:01:35
atrocities in Australia, and immediately01:01:38
tried to make it about my homeland, my01:01:40
forefathers, all about it's because he's01:01:43
trying to capitalize on these heinous01:01:47
murders in Australia. And I think it is01:01:49
nothing less than disgusting that you01:01:52
would come on air and try and do that.01:01:54
Shame on you. You're a very bad liar.01:01:56
>> All right, last word to Jonathan.01:01:58
>> Yeah, right. Uh, listen, you don't even01:02:01
you're not even worthy of a comment. But01:02:03
I think if we go back to the topic of01:02:06
Islamist terrorism in Australia, I think01:02:10
we're ask we've been asking questions,01:02:12
some of them relevant, I think. But I01:02:13
think we should be listening to what's01:02:15
coming out of the Grand Mosque in Sydney01:02:19
and what main imams are saying and01:02:22
preaching on Fridays and in special01:02:24
sermons and what they're saying to01:02:26
condemning Bondi believers. They condemn01:02:28
Bondi categorically. Some of them are01:02:31
condemning Bondi are not say it. They01:02:33
are condemning Bondi. They are standing01:02:35
with their Jewish brethren.01:02:36
>> Some of them are and some of them very01:02:38
clearly condemn it. And if I just be01:02:41
allowed to finish a point here before01:02:43
you jump, if I'll just want to make a01:02:45
point here because I think this connects01:02:46
with us having a little bit more clarity01:02:49
and honesty about the situation. To be01:02:52
clear, I do not think that every Muslim01:02:54
is to blame for this. That's a01:02:56
ridiculous thing to say. I don't think01:02:58
that Muslims as a whole are a problem or01:03:02
the problem. I think that unchecked01:03:05
extremism where local authorities are01:03:08
either too weak or too cowardly or too01:03:11
ignorant to recognize that is the01:03:14
problem. And that's a problem that01:03:16
permeates in England, in Germany, in01:03:18
Sweden, in France, in Australia, in01:03:20
Canada, and in some parts of the US. It01:03:23
is the complete lack of understanding01:03:26
what extremist Islam is. 2 billion01:03:29
Muslims live in peace. 2 billion Muslims01:03:31
live in harmony. 2 billion Muslims live01:03:33
alongside Christians and the Jews.01:03:35
Muslims did not commit the Holocaust.01:03:36
Muslims did not impose a Muslim didn't01:03:39
slaughter Muslims didn't do the genocide01:03:41
in Rwanda. Muslims didn't do a part in01:03:43
South Africa. Muslims didn't commit the01:03:45
Holocaust. Muslims sent ships to Spain01:03:48
to bring Jews to safety when they were01:03:49
being slaughtered over there. After the01:03:51
Holocaust, Jews came to the Muslims in01:03:54
don't do so what Europe did. Be fair,01:03:56
Jonathan. Okay, I've got to leave it01:03:58
there. Miranda, I know you got to go.01:04:00
Um, keep writing your great columns.01:04:02
Must read in the New York Post whenever01:04:05
you drop. Um, one of the best riders,01:04:07
one of the best writers in America. Um,01:04:09
and I really appreciate you all joining01:04:11
me. Thank you very much. >> Thank you.01:04:13
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Well, joining me now is the first Miss01:05:08
Palestine to compete in the Miss01:05:09
Universe competition, Nadine Aub.01:05:12
Nadine, welcome to Uncensored. First of01:05:14
all, your reaction to the appalling01:05:17
terror attack in Bondi Beach.01:05:19
>> My reaction to what happened in the01:05:22
Bandi attack is extremely I feel I feel01:05:25
so much for what happened to these01:05:27
people and no people should have to face01:05:30
any form of violence. I condemn the01:05:32
attacks. I condemn any form of01:05:34
discrimination or violence.01:05:37
You >> you were born in Michigan. Your parents01:05:39
had moved there with your family from01:05:42
Palestine. So your brother could get01:05:43
medical treatment. Um then they returned01:05:46
to Ramala where you lived until you were01:05:48
six. Then you moved back to America01:05:50
again. Then you relocated to to Canada.01:05:52
So you moved around a lot when you were01:05:54
young but obviously spent time in01:05:56
Palestine, time in America.01:06:00
>> Yes. Where are we with01:06:03
the aftermath of this war? There's a01:06:06
there's a ceasefire, thank God, at the01:06:07
moment, but we don't know whether it's01:06:09
going to last or not. But this is just a01:06:11
reminder of this longunning near 801:06:15
decade saw of the Israel Palestine01:06:18
conflict and obviously America's been01:06:20
heavily engaged with Israel on this.01:06:23
Where do you feel we're going with this?01:06:24
Are we going to get to a place where01:06:27
there is a two-state solution where01:06:29
Palestinians can live side by side with01:06:31
Israelis in peace or is this looking01:06:34
further and further away?01:06:37
>> I really hope that there will be peace01:06:39
that there will be a solution um a01:06:41
possible two-state solution or some way01:06:44
where Palestinians can really just have01:06:46
their human rights and human dignity.01:06:48
And I think the root cause of this is01:06:50
the occupation is um it's that is truly01:06:53
where the root cause is. You know, I01:06:55
have like you've said, I've lived in the01:06:57
States. I am an American citizen as well01:06:59
as a Palestinian citizen. I've lived in01:07:01
both places. I was raised uh a big01:07:03
portion of my life in in Palestine and01:07:07
have lived there. And I do go there very01:07:09
frequently and I work with women and01:07:11
children there through my foundation01:07:13
helping them helping them to uh reach01:07:16
their dreams and really help them um not01:07:19
only just you know I I don't want them01:07:21
to just be focusing on the suffering and01:07:23
pain. I want them to really focus on01:07:25
innovation and help themselves and grow01:07:27
as people. And you have so many01:07:28
Palestinians that want to do that. They01:07:30
they want to learn. They want to have an01:07:32
education. They want to be able to01:07:34
freely move from one point to one point01:07:36
and go to their universities, be able to01:07:38
innovate, be able to connect to each01:07:40
other. But unfortunately, there are so01:07:42
many challenges including having to go01:07:44
through checkpoints, having to go01:07:46
through uh there are illegal settlements01:07:48
in the West Bank where we're unable to01:07:50
even move freely. We don't even have01:07:52
access to an airport. We have to use a01:07:54
different airport in another country to01:07:56
actually be able to access our own01:07:58
country. And so these things that are01:08:00
caused by the occupation really h really01:08:04
set us back in not only our wanting to01:08:07
survive and ability to survive but also01:08:09
to thrive and innovate. And a big part01:08:11
of a country's economy, a big part of01:08:14
its social stability is for people to be01:08:16
able to dream and live and and innovate01:08:19
and we are stripped from that. And even01:08:21
something as simple as me going to a01:08:24
beauty competition has been so difficult01:08:26
to do. And it has been years and years01:08:28
of struggle to be able to just go to a01:08:31
to an international beauty competition.01:08:33
And this is me. This is someone who has01:08:34
the privilege, who can travel, who has01:08:37
lived in the States, has lived in01:08:39
Palestine, is able to move around freely01:08:42
uh to some degree. And I still have my01:08:44
struggles. I still have a lot of01:08:46
struggles to be able to even reach my my01:08:48
city Ramla.01:08:50
What was it like representing Palestine01:08:52
in a Miss Universe because it's it's not01:08:55
happened before. What was the experience01:08:56
like for you?01:08:58
>> It was an amazing experience in the01:09:00
sense that I was so proud to raise uh01:09:03
Palestine's voice to show that we're not01:09:06
just about our struggle and pain, but01:09:08
we're so much beauty and culture and01:09:10
heritage. And I always say that um01:09:13
culture and beauty, it's the window to01:09:15
really connect to the world and people.01:09:17
And I feel that the media has really01:09:19
dehumanized us. And this is actually a01:09:22
narrative that has been made by a lot01:09:25
of, you know, international media that01:09:27
goes for more propaganda to show01:09:29
Palestinians in a more, you know,01:09:31
inhumane way and to dehumanize us so01:09:34
that we're not seen as as humans and so01:09:37
injust acts and and, you know, stripping01:09:40
us of our human rights can be justified.01:09:43
And for me, the way that I fight this,01:09:45
the way that I use my voice for my01:09:47
people, and you know, it's a way to01:09:50
resist through beauty, a soft type of01:09:53
power to say to the world that no, you01:09:55
know what, we have a lot to offer. We01:09:57
have so much culture and heritage. And01:09:58
that's what I did there. I did it01:10:00
through my presence, through existing,01:10:03
through through me, through not only01:10:05
Nadine, but carrying all of Palestine's01:10:08
voice, the children, the women who want01:10:10
to dream through their voices and01:10:12
through their art.01:10:14
>> What reaction did you get from the Arab01:10:17
world? I mean, I'd imagine it was a01:10:18
mixture of people celebrating what you01:10:21
were doing, people who didn't care what01:10:23
you were doing, but some people maybe on01:10:25
the more conservative side, uh, more01:10:27
conservative Muslims perhaps who were01:10:30
angry about you appearing in a beauty01:10:32
contest representing an Arab country. I01:10:35
imagine you've had all of these01:10:36
reactions. What was what was it like to01:10:38
to be on receiving end of so much01:10:41
critique?01:10:43
Well, Pier Piers, you may be surprised,01:10:45
but I actually did not get any I really01:10:48
didn't receive any hate or anything from01:10:50
conservative Muslims because01:10:53
>> No, no. I I I wasn't affected at all by01:10:55
that and I I I didn't see it to be01:10:57
honest. I mean, I was focused so much on01:10:59
the positivity that I got from them and01:11:01
I think they really saw it as a way01:11:03
through through the way I represented,01:11:05
of course, because I did respect my01:11:06
culture. I did respect the way that they01:11:08
view things. And you know there's01:11:10
nothing wrong with a culture that views01:11:13
women in a way where you know we should01:11:14
be more modest or we should be somehow01:11:18
you know respectful of this. this is a01:11:20
way that they respect women and um I01:11:23
respect that as well and actually I felt01:11:25
very empower empowered respecting my01:11:27
culture and um I think they saw that and01:11:30
they truly respected that and uh they01:11:32
supported me and they saw it definitely01:11:33
as a way where I put Palestine on the01:11:36
map and that I I was able to show the01:11:39
culture, the designs, the history in01:11:41
such a way and then through my01:11:43
foundation um you know I I've been01:11:45
really showcasing the stories of01:11:47
Palestinian women and children who want01:11:48
to show a different side of Palestine.01:11:50
Um, of course there were some things uh01:11:53
within the Miss Universe organization01:11:54
that were questionable and this caused a01:11:57
little bit of confusion not only for me01:11:59
but other contestants and I was I was01:12:02
surprised because you know I thought01:12:03
that maybe going onto a platform like01:12:05
Miss Universe it will be a place where01:12:07
there is more justice you know because01:12:09
you know I I'm I'm coming from a place01:12:11
where there isn't so much u justice01:12:14
because of the the occupation and a lot01:12:16
of our human rights being taken away but01:12:19
going there you know it a chance to01:12:20
finally it was a chance to finally01:12:22
actually speak and um and be out there.01:12:26
Uh but there was a lot of questionable01:12:28
things that happened.01:12:30
>> One of the things that happened as a01:12:32
result of your appearance was you you01:12:34
became heavily scrutinized by parts of01:12:37
the media. The New York Post had a whole01:12:39
front page about you which I want to01:12:41
discuss with you. Um it revealed that01:12:44
you had been married and had a child01:12:46
with the son of somebody who is01:12:49
considered by America to be a convicted01:12:51
terrorist. This is uh you were01:12:54
previously married to Shahaf Bouti, the01:12:56
son of the fatar leader Marwan Barguti01:12:59
who is currently serving five life01:13:01
sentences in Israel for terror attacks01:13:04
that killed five people in 2001 and01:13:06
2002. you had a son with Shah uh01:13:09
Marwan's son who was also named Marwan.01:13:12
Now when this appeared the day before uh01:13:16
you said uh I'm proud to be connected to01:13:19
Manela Mandela of Palestine. He calls01:13:22
for peace between Palestinians. He's a01:13:24
leader of Batan, not Hamas. He's not a01:13:27
terrorist. Terrorist is a colonial word.01:13:29
Mandela was called a terrorist when he01:13:30
was imprisoned. Then he was a hero.01:13:32
Hundreds of celebrities recently came01:13:34
out in support of him being freed from01:13:36
prison. and he can create peace with01:13:38
Israel. I'm no longer with Shariff. We01:13:40
have a good relationship though. We01:13:41
share a son and we co-parent. So, you01:13:43
know, that must have been a big thing01:13:44
for you to go through to be the front01:13:47
page of a major newspaper in America01:13:50
purportedly having this direct link to a01:13:54
convicted terrorist. I've seen your01:13:57
explanation.01:13:58
Again, what was the reaction to that01:14:01
story and the revelation that you had01:14:03
that connection to Marwan Bagouti?01:14:07
Well, first I want to say that you know01:14:09
I I don't usually talk about my personal01:14:12
life and this is something that I always01:14:13
felt it's everyone's personal choice to01:14:16
talk about their personal life or not01:14:18
and this is a right of every single01:14:20
human being but since I don't have that01:14:22
right as a Palestinian unfortunately01:14:24
um I will talk about it and of course I01:14:27
will say that I am proud of our01:14:29
Palestinian leader I want to say that01:14:32
Marwana Bouti is not a terrorist and he01:14:35
is actually recognized by many01:14:36
international figures, peace figures as01:14:39
the Palestinian Nelson Mandela. In fact,01:14:42
his release campaign or his campaign to01:14:44
be released was actually launched from01:14:47
Robin Island where Nelson Mandela's cell01:14:50
was prison cell and he has the support01:14:53
of the Mandela family. He has the01:14:55
support of peace symbols or you know at01:14:57
the time when it was launched by Desmond01:14:58
Tutu, Jimmy Carter's, Angela Davies and01:15:02
right now recently actually 20001:15:04
celebrities and public figures have01:15:07
signed and have campaigned for his01:15:09
release and he is someone that actually01:15:12
advocated for peace. He is a peace01:15:14
symbol. In fact, during his trial, he01:15:17
kept on saying, "I am a man of peace. I01:15:19
go for peace." He did not even identify01:15:22
his trial to be legitimate or factual or01:15:25
actually legal. And it and it isn't. Uh01:15:27
according to many international human01:15:30
rights organizations, even Jewish and01:15:32
Israeli organizations, they see his01:15:34
trial as illegitimate because it is a01:15:36
military court. How can the occupier01:15:39
actually have a trial for those that01:15:42
that that they occupy? They have a 99%01:15:46
conviction rate. So So it's obviously01:15:49
unfair. even authoritative governments01:15:51
authority. >> Has he has he been responsible for for01:15:53
killing people?01:15:55
>> No, he has not. There is no trial that01:15:58
has proved that and he actually does not01:16:01
identify for the trial to be correct and01:16:03
he does not face it as to be01:16:05
>> there's been a trial. He just doesn't01:16:06
accept it.01:16:08
>> Of course, but the trial is from a01:16:10
military court. A military court that's01:16:12
occupying a people. And peers, let's01:16:14
look at the the statistics. 99%01:16:17
conviction rate. And when you're saying01:16:19
99% conviction rate, that means you know01:16:21
that the people going in are going to be01:16:23
wrongfully convicted. There is no01:16:25
there's no court in this world that has01:16:26
a 99% conviction.01:16:27
>> There are there are I don't know Marwan01:16:31
Budi personally. Never met him or talked01:16:33
to him. But I do know there are many01:16:35
many Palestinians who believe he may be01:16:39
the person that should lead the01:16:41
Palestinians out of this horrendous war.01:16:44
uh to affect that he'd have to be01:16:46
released obviously. But if that was to01:16:48
if that was to happen, do you think he01:16:51
would make a good leader of the01:16:52
Palestinians?01:16:54
>> I think he would make the perfect01:16:55
leader. And I will tell you something,01:16:57
after the the Oslo Peace Accords, he was01:16:59
actually open to talking talking to01:17:01
Israelis and he was having discussions01:17:03
with Israelis and the Israeli government01:17:05
to call for peace and to have a01:17:07
two-state solution. But then this the01:17:08
illegal settlements in the West Bank01:17:10
continued and then the inifod broke out01:17:12
and so he didn't he wasn't able to01:17:14
continue this. But he is someone that is01:17:16
extremely educated. He actually even01:17:18
teaches in in prison. I I don't like to01:17:21
call it prison honestly because it is a01:17:23
way to have hostages. It's just a01:17:25
military term to call it prison, but it01:17:27
is a hostage place for Palestinians. And01:17:31
um he he helps uh Palestinians in prison01:17:34
be educated. He he's helped them even01:17:36
have their master's degree, their PhD.01:17:38
He is a doctor himself and he really01:17:40
advocates for women empowerment. I have01:17:42
not personally met him by the way. Um I01:17:45
have shared letters with him. And the01:17:47
one thing he was always always so keen01:17:50
on telling me about is to continue my01:17:52
education and to always be active in my01:17:55
community and to be always active in a01:17:57
positive way as a woman. His his wife01:17:59
actually is the one who who uh who01:18:02
launched his um his campaign and she is01:18:05
a lawyer and he was always pushing her01:18:07
to continue her education. His family is01:18:10
extremely uh extremely kind people who01:18:13
have not seen their father for for 2301:18:16
years, you know, since he's been locked01:18:17
up. They haven't been able to touch him,01:18:19
hasn't been able to seen to see him. Can01:18:21
you imagine how many other Palestinians01:18:24
also feel this way? They you know they01:18:26
they have stripped families of a male01:18:29
figure. They have stripped families of01:18:31
an extremely important base in the01:18:35
family to have a male figure, a father.01:18:37
Um this has stripped our our our society01:18:41
um our social stability and in order to01:18:44
have a fair society we need to be to01:18:47
first take care of the family. Imagine01:18:49
how many families don't have their their01:18:51
fathers. Now going back to Marwan01:18:54
Baruti, he is definitely a leader that01:18:56
everyone uh agrees for him to be uh the01:18:59
perfect uh the perfect Palestinian01:19:02
leader and he is the only one that01:19:05
actually would win an election over01:19:06
Hamas. And so you have to question then01:19:10
why does Israel want to keep him in01:19:11
prison when you have all of these facts?01:19:14
When he is saying that I want to call01:19:15
for peace and I want to call for a two01:19:17
two-state solution, why is he still in01:19:19
prison? Is it that he does he threaten01:19:22
the status quo? Does he threaten that01:19:25
that that possibly there could be peace01:19:28
if he is out?01:19:29
>> Do do you condemn Hamas unreservedly for01:19:32
what they did on October the 7th?01:19:35
>> I do condemn any violence and anything01:19:37
that creates any discrimination against01:19:41
anyone. [clears throat] Of course, I I'm01:19:42
against violence and this is actually01:19:44
against our Palestinian values. And I01:19:47
want to remind everyone that, you know,01:19:50
after the World War II, we Palestinians01:19:53
took them in our homes. We we there01:19:55
Jewish people are brothers and sisters.01:19:58
And this is not um this is not a war01:20:01
between Judaism and Islam or01:20:03
Christianity. This is not a war between01:20:05
religions. Palestine actually is the01:20:07
holy land of the three Abrahamic01:20:08
religions. Bethlehem, where Jesus is01:20:11
born, is in Palestine. So, you know, we01:20:15
have some of the most ancient uh Jewish01:20:18
and Christian civilizations in the West01:20:20
Bank and Raza. And did you know that the01:20:24
church of secular, the keys of the01:20:26
church of secular in Jerusalem, you know01:20:28
who holds them?01:20:30
>> The Christians gave them to two Muslim01:20:32
families.01:20:34
>> They are the ones who hold the keys to01:20:36
the church of secular. Why is that? If01:20:38
there is actually this war between01:20:40
religions, why are why do these things01:20:42
exist? Why are these the facts that01:20:45
exist here? Um we we took them in. This01:20:48
is not there is a very big difference01:20:50
between Judaism, Zionism and even01:20:53
anti-semitism or semitism. But I feel01:20:56
like this nar the narratives really01:20:58
create this confusion complexity around01:21:01
these definitions to kind of play with a01:21:03
narrative for a political ideologies.01:21:07
Yeah, I I think that's probably right.01:21:09
Um, let let me just end with another war01:21:13
that's been raging and that involves the01:21:15
Miss Universe contest itself. Um, you01:21:19
didn't come in the top five, although01:21:21
many people thought you were one of the01:21:23
favorites to win. The ones who won, Miss01:21:26
Mexico won and Miss Thailand was runner01:21:28
up. Those are two countries, as you01:21:30
pointed out, who are the owners of the01:21:32
competition.01:21:34
uh a week after uh there was a walk out01:21:37
by Miss Mexico, two judges resigned, one01:21:39
of them accusing the composition of01:21:40
being rigged. The whole thing looks like01:21:42
it was a stitch up. Do you think you you01:21:44
were robbed?01:21:47
I don't want to say that I was robbed.01:21:49
Uh I'm not a victim. You know, I'm I'm01:21:51
very proud of what I have accomplished.01:21:53
I've really been able to raise Palestine01:21:55
and and do a lot of great things with01:21:58
the national costume and and the way I01:22:00
represented my culture. But what I can01:22:02
say is that there was a lot of01:22:03
unfairness and injustices of course and01:22:05
there was a lot of there was a lack of01:22:07
transparency in the judging and I will01:22:10
tell you this there were a lot of judges01:22:12
that resigned01:22:14
>> days before the competition and the only01:22:16
Arab judge Lebanese uh judge named Omar01:22:19
Harush also resigned because he said01:22:21
that the placements were already chosen.01:22:23
The top 30 was already chosen. They01:22:26
already knew who won. Um, this was01:22:28
declared by the judges and um, you know,01:22:32
it's interesting because a couple days01:22:34
before the the finale, I noticed that01:22:37
they had on board an Israeli judge. And01:22:40
not that I have, you know, anything01:22:42
against any human being, but I just01:22:44
found that a little bit weird that, you01:22:46
know, an Israeli judge that doesn't01:22:48
really have anything to do with a01:22:49
humanitarian project was judging the01:22:52
Beyond the Crown, which was the01:22:54
humanitarian social responsibility01:22:56
project. And of course, my social01:22:57
responsibility project was about the01:22:59
Palestinian women and children who uh01:23:01
want uh help and to raise their voice01:23:03
and everything. So, it was all very01:23:06
weird like the way things happened and I01:23:08
definitely felt an uneasiness. And you01:23:12
it's interesting even the whole incident01:23:14
with Miss Mexico at the beginning of the01:23:15
competition where she walked out because01:23:17
the organizer criticized her was also01:23:20
very uh strange because out of all of01:23:23
the 122 contestants that were there, he01:23:26
pointed out to her uh to criticize. So01:23:30
it wasn't like she stood up by herself01:23:31
and there was just an argument like he01:23:34
he actually went and pointed and said01:23:36
Miss Mexico and started criticizing her01:23:39
in [snorts] front of everyone where01:23:40
where she had to actually respond. Now01:23:43
of course I will never ever uh blame or01:23:46
put anything on any woman. Uh I think01:23:48
that uh what she did and how she left01:23:51
was very important uh and it was a it01:23:54
was a way to show a huge stance on women01:23:56
empowerment and I that's why I left. But01:23:59
the way things happened, the system,01:24:00
what was planned, the behind the scenes01:24:02
aspect was very questionable. The01:24:05
transparency, where are the scores? Like01:24:07
I knew that I got one of the highest01:24:09
scores in the uh closed door interview01:24:12
where they interviewed us about our01:24:13
humanitarian work, our our social work,01:24:15
and how we speak. And I know that I got01:24:18
one of the highest and this was 60% of01:24:20
the judging. And so it's very01:24:23
interesting to me how, you know, I01:24:25
didn't, of course, I didn't get to top01:24:26
five to be able to speak. Yeah, well,01:24:29
you would have got my you would have got01:24:30
my vote, but I wasn't a judge,01:24:32
unfortunately. Um, I've got to say, Miss01:24:34
Universe organization has rejected01:24:36
claims of judges who quit citing on01:24:38
fairness, saying no external group has01:24:40
been authorized to evaluate delegates or01:24:42
select finalists. So, that was their01:24:44
official position, but it all looks01:24:46
pretty fishy to me. Uh, Nadine, thank01:24:48
you very much indeed for joining me. I01:24:49
appreciate it.01:24:51
>> Thank you so much, Pierce.01:24:54
>> Pierce Morgan Sense is proudly01:24:55
independent. The only boss around here01:24:57
is me. If you enjoy our [music] show, we01:24:59
ask for only one simple thing. Hit01:25:01
subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers01:25:04
Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple01:25:06
Podcast. And in return, we will continue01:25:08
our mission to inform, irritate, and01:25:11
entertain. And we'll do it all for free.01:25:13
Independent uncensored media has never01:25:15
been more critical, and we couldn't do01:25:17
it without you.01:25:20
[music]Description:
Since the terror attack on Bondi Beach on Sunday, many prominent people including former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott are pointing the finger at Western governments which rushed to recognise a Palestinian state and supposedly tolerated extremism at anti-Israel protests. Others have argued that, by the very same logic, the Israeli government is culpable for the mass suffering it has inflicted on Gaza. Attention is turning, again, to immigration policies and whether multiculture - and Muslim culture - can ever work in the West. Piers Morgan uncovers the tensions that only seem to be getting stronger, first speaking to Israel’s deputy foreign minister Sharren Haskel about the attack in Sydney, asking her how safe she thinks Jewish people are worldwide following the events that have unfolded since October 7. Uncensored then welcomes New York post columnist Miranda Devine, retired lieutenant colonel and IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus, journalist and commentator Sami Hamdi, British-Palestinian Novara commentator Kieran Andrieu and Australian commentator Samara Gill. Plus, he speaks to Miss Palestine, Nadeen Ayoub, who he asks about her marriage to the son of Hamas’ most-wanted terrorist prisoner. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Shen Yun: Visit https://www.shenyun.com/?tb=1&discount=piers to buy tickets and waive fees. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. ExpressVPN: Right now you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. Just scan the QR code on the screen, or go to https://expressvpn.com/PIERS and get four extra months for free. 00:00 Introduction 02:15 Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister on Bondi attack 08:10 Has the devastation of Gaza made antisemitism worse? 19:18 Piers’ panel reacts to the Bondi beach massacre 20:07 AD: Shen Yun - visit https://www.shenyun.com/?tb=1&discount=piers to buy tickets and waive fees 21:05 Miranda Devine: ‘There’s no excuse!’ 28:45 Samara Gill: ‘Australia was at a boiling point!’ 36:16 How do we stop the radicalisation? Sami Hamdi responds. 42:10 AD: Oxford Natural - https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ for 70% off first order with code PIERS 42:58 Australia's government ‘playing footsie with antisemites’ 49:54 Jonathan Conricus versus Kieran Andrieu 57:50 How soft is Anthony Albanese on antisemitism? 01:04:14 AD: ExpressVPN - get an extra four months free at https://expressvpn.com/PIERS 01:05:07 Miss Palestine reacts to the Bondi Beach attack 01:12:30 Miss Palestine’s relationship with Marwan Barghouti's son Subscribe to stay up-to-date on all Uncensored content. Follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on: X: https://x.com/PiersUncensored Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@piersmorganuncensored Follow Piers Morgan on: X: https://x.com/piersmorgan Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser
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