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piersmorgan

00:00:00

I think the chances that this ceasefire

00:00:03

will hold are not good at all. The idea

00:00:05

of ethnically cleansing greater Israel

00:00:08

has been wired into Zionism from the

00:00:11

very beginning. This is why you had

00:00:13

massive ethnic cleansing in 1948 and

00:00:16

1967.

00:00:18

And here after 2023, you had a big war.

00:00:21

And the Israelis always see big wars as

00:00:24

an opportunity to ethnically cleanse.

00:00:26

The fact is the United States is not

00:00:29

going to cut off its aid and assistance

00:00:32

to Israel. It's just not going to

00:00:34

happen. And President Trump has never

00:00:36

given any indication that he would do

00:00:39

that. When President Trump says to

00:00:42

Benjamin Netanyahu, "If you don't accept

00:00:45

a two-state solution, I will cut off all

00:00:48

aid. Then I will apologize to you and

00:00:51

say that you were right and I was

00:00:53

wrong."

00:00:55

Amid the positivity and relief about the

00:00:57

prospect of peace in Gaza, not

00:00:58

everyone's been thrilled by the sight of

00:01:00

the US president honoring Prime Minister

00:01:02

Netanyahu in the Knesset. The fact

00:01:04

remains that more people now than ever,

00:01:05

including among Trump's base, are deeply

00:01:07

uncomfortable about Israel's influence

00:01:09

on US politics and deeply skeptical

00:01:11

about the prospects of a lasting peace

00:01:13

while Netanyahu is still in power. For

00:01:15

his analysis, I'm joined now by

00:01:17

international relations scholar,

00:01:18

Professor John M. Sharma. Professor M,

00:01:20

great to have you back on our sensive.

00:01:23

I'm glad to be back. Pierce,

00:01:25

>> it it feels like a day of history today.

00:01:29

What is your assessment of the

00:01:31

ceasefire, of the dramatic release of

00:01:34

all remaining living hostages, uh and of

00:01:36

the scenes in the Knesset with President

00:01:38

Trump? What what what is your view of it

00:01:40

all?

00:01:43

>> Well, I could make a number of points.

00:01:45

First of all, it's wonderful to see the

00:01:47

hostages released

00:01:49

uh for their sake and for their family's

00:01:52

sake. Uh and it's wonderful to see the

00:01:54

Palestinian prisoners released as well.

00:01:57

Uh that is all a net positive. Uh in

00:02:01

terms of President Trump and his

00:02:02

performance uh in the Israeli Knesset,

00:02:06

it was vintage Trump. Uh he's one of the

00:02:08

greatest showmen uh of all time. His

00:02:12

ability uh to put on a rock and roll

00:02:14

show is just not to be underestimated.

00:02:17

Uh I don't think there's any other

00:02:19

politician uh in our history or on the

00:02:23

planet in this point in time who can

00:02:25

operate before an audience as well as he

00:02:29

does. >> Yeah. >> Now with regard to substance

00:02:32

uh which is of course the key issue uh I

00:02:36

think that this hostage exchange this

00:02:39

temporary ceasefire and hostage exchange

00:02:42

is definitely a move forward. But the

00:02:47

two critical questions on the table are

00:02:50

number one, will you get a permanent

00:02:52

ceasefire? Will the ceasefire hold? And

00:02:55

then number two, will you get a genuine

00:02:58

peace agreement uh at the end of this

00:03:00

entire process? And I think there is

00:03:03

zero chance you'll get a peace

00:03:05

agreement. And I think the chances that

00:03:08

this ceasefire will hold are not good at

00:03:11

all.

00:03:12

>> Why?

00:03:16

Well, the Israelis are bent on

00:03:19

destroying Hamas and more importantly,

00:03:23

they're bent on ethnically cleansing the

00:03:25

Palestinians from Gaza. That's their

00:03:28

principal goal. They have not defeated

00:03:31

Hamas. Uh, and there's no way that

00:03:34

they're going to end up disarming and

00:03:36

defeating Hamas as a result of this

00:03:38

ceasefire. It's just not going to

00:03:40

happen. And I can explain why. And

00:03:42

furthermore, the Israelis are not going

00:03:44

to completely leave Gaza as long as

00:03:47

Hamas is not defeated. Uh, and given

00:03:50

that situation coupled with the fact

00:03:54

that uh, Netanyahu and company are

00:03:57

determined to drive the Palestinians out

00:03:59

of Gaza. Uh, it's only a matter of time,

00:04:02

I think. I hope I'm wrong. I think uh,

00:04:06

before the ceasefire breaks down and

00:04:08

we're back to conflict. By the way,

00:04:10

Piers, you want to remember right before

00:04:12

President Trump took office, he took

00:04:14

office on January 20th. On January 19th,

00:04:18

a ceasefire was put into place. And that

00:04:21

ceasefire lasted until March 18th when

00:04:24

the Israelis broke it. But over the

00:04:26

course of that ceasefire, the January to

00:04:28

March 2025 ceasefire, 33 Israeli

00:04:32

prisoners were released and five Thai

00:04:35

prisoners were released. So, we have a

00:04:37

precedent here. But the fact is after

00:04:40

this earlier hostage exchange uh it

00:04:43

broke down, the ceasefire broke down and

00:04:45

you were back to the genocide and my

00:04:48

great fear is that that's what will

00:04:49

happen this time.

00:04:51

>> The thing that I was most concerned

00:04:53

about in the last few months was the

00:04:55

increasing rhetoric from the likes of

00:04:57

Smodri and Bengave in the Israeli

00:04:59

government, the hard right element of

00:05:01

that government where they were talking

00:05:03

in the most brazen way about ethnic

00:05:05

cleansing. I mean, they were making it

00:05:06

crystal clear that they now saw the

00:05:08

mission as kicking Palestinians out,

00:05:11

cleansing Gaza, as they put it, and

00:05:13

taking that land, which they believed

00:05:16

is, you know, their religious right. Um,

00:05:20

but what's interesting to me is today,

00:05:22

coupled with all the scenes of hostages

00:05:24

going home and Trump and the Knesset and

00:05:26

so on, you also saw thousands of

00:05:28

Palestinians going back into where their

00:05:33

remains of their homes are um to try and

00:05:35

start rebuilding their lives. That is

00:05:38

not consistent with my fear that Israel

00:05:42

was really plotting to expel them all

00:05:44

and keep them out. Are you not

00:05:46

encouraged by the scenes of so many

00:05:48

Palestinians being allowed to go back to

00:05:51

where their homeland was?

00:05:55

>> It's hard not to feel good about seeing

00:05:58

the Palestinians return to their homes.

00:06:01

Uh it it warms the cockals of my heart,

00:06:03

although it's terribly depressing to see

00:06:06

what's happened to their homes. But the

00:06:08

more important question, Pierce, is what

00:06:11

is the political settlement here? There

00:06:14

are two big questions. who is going to

00:06:16

run Gaza?

00:06:17

>> In other words, is there going to be

00:06:18

Palestinian self-determination?

00:06:21

Are the Palestinians going to run Gaza?

00:06:23

That's number one. And then number two,

00:06:26

what is the political horizon? What is

00:06:28

the endgame here? And with regard to the

00:06:31

question of who is going to run Gaza

00:06:34

now, it's not going to be the

00:06:35

Palestinians. It's going to be uh

00:06:38

President Trump and apparently Tony

00:06:41

Blair and some of the Arab armies in the

00:06:44

neighborhood are going to provide

00:06:45

security, but the Palestinians are not

00:06:47

going to uh have self-determination

00:06:50

here. They're not going to run Gaza. And

00:06:52

then more importantly, in terms of the

00:06:54

long term, there's not going to be any

00:06:56

two-state solution. There's no political

00:06:59

solution here. Uh so this one's just

00:07:02

going to go on and on. I mean, you're

00:07:04

very downbeat about it, but others who

00:07:07

are involved at the sort of sharp end of

00:07:09

negotiations, they do believe that out

00:07:12

of the hell of the last two years, there

00:07:14

is a genuine opportunity and a genuine

00:07:16

collective will from the neighboring

00:07:19

Arab and Muslim countries, including

00:07:21

Turkey, Egypt, UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia,

00:07:25

to try and use this as a way of getting

00:07:29

to a two-state solution. Why are you so

00:07:31

pessimistic about it?

00:07:34

>> I mean, Prime Minister Netanyahu has

00:07:36

made it unequivocally clear on countless

00:07:39

occasions that there's not going to be a

00:07:41

two-state solution.

00:07:42

>> He has. But what if he's not

00:07:43

>> unequivocally,

00:07:46

it's a position that's widely shared in

00:07:49

Israel. And after what's happened over

00:07:51

the past two years, do you think any

00:07:53

Israeli is going to be interested in a

00:07:55

two-state solution? Probably the number

00:07:58

you can count on one hand. uh it's just

00:08:00

not going to happen. The Israelis have

00:08:03

already de facto annexed Gaza and de

00:08:06

facto enex the West Bank. Their

00:08:09

principal goal now is to ethnically

00:08:11

cleanse the Palestinians out of those

00:08:14

two areas. The idea of ethnically

00:08:16

cleansing greater Israel has been wired

00:08:19

into Zionism from the very beginning.

00:08:22

This is why you had massive ethnic

00:08:24

cleansing in 1948 and 1967

00:08:27

and here after 2023 you had a big war

00:08:30

and the Israelis always see big wars as

00:08:33

an opportunity to ethnically cleanse and

00:08:36

that's what they are trying to do.

00:08:38

>> Okay. But there are two things I would

00:08:39

say about that which may counter that uh

00:08:42

rather doomladen narrative. One is

00:08:44

President Trump who has set his stall

00:08:46

and his reputation and his legacy on

00:08:50

this being a lasting peace. This is as

00:08:52

by his own admission on the plane Air

00:08:54

Force One last night. This is the

00:08:55

biggest moment of his life that's

00:08:57

unfurling here. And I think he is

00:08:59

determined to try and bring lasting

00:09:01

peace and he is key to Israel's ability

00:09:05

to continue prosecuting a war against

00:09:08

Hamas or to ethnically cleanse the

00:09:10

Palestinians. He's made it clear there

00:09:11

can be no annexing of the West Bank. The

00:09:14

Palestinians must be allowed to return

00:09:16

home. So I'm encouraged by that. And

00:09:17

there's a secondary issue which is more

00:09:20

of an economic issue which is that

00:09:22

before October the 7th Saudi Arabia was

00:09:24

making a lot of signals that they wanted

00:09:26

to join the Abraham Accords which would

00:09:28

have a very significant financial

00:09:31

economic benefit for Israel if that

00:09:33

happened. And that's been put on hold

00:09:35

for this war. But, you know, the signals

00:09:37

again coming from Saudi Arabia is if

00:09:39

this all gets resolved and if there's

00:09:41

peace in Gaza and they can move towards

00:09:44

a two-state solution or at least have

00:09:46

the the sort of planks for that to go

00:09:48

ahead, then they may join the Abraham

00:09:51

Accords too with all the benefit that

00:09:53

would come to Israel. So, there are two

00:09:55

things there which I think would

00:09:57

slightly counter your your narrative.

00:10:03

>> Well, I would make two points. First, I

00:10:05

think you greatly underestimate, peers,

00:10:08

how deeply committed the Israelis are to

00:10:11

ethnically cleansing both Gaza and West

00:10:14

Bank and the West Bank. The Israelis now

00:10:17

have a situation where there are roughly

00:10:19

as many Palestinians as there are

00:10:22

Israeli Jews inside of greater Israel.

00:10:26

And this is an unacceptable situation

00:10:28

for most Israelis. and they're

00:10:30

completely committed to ethnically

00:10:33

cleansing Gaza and then the West Bank. I

00:10:36

think the evidence is overwhelming on

00:10:38

this. Now, you say President Trump sees

00:10:40

this as a great opportunity to prove

00:10:42

that he's a statesman and he can bring

00:10:44

peace to the Middle East. I think in

00:10:46

principle that he'd love to do that, but

00:10:49

I've written a book with Steve Walt on

00:10:51

the Israel lobby. And there's absolutely

00:10:53

no question in my mind that if President

00:10:56

Trump gets rough with Prime Minister

00:10:58

Netanyahu, Netanyahu will turn to the

00:11:01

lobby and the lobby will force Trump to

00:11:04

back off. There's no way Trump is going

00:11:06

to get tough with Netanyahu if he

00:11:09

violates the ceasefire. Remember, he did

00:11:12

that in March on March 18th. That's

00:11:14

>> not think he's already got tough with

00:11:15

him. I I think the catalyst for what's

00:11:18

what we've seen today uh unfur the last

00:11:21

few days. I think the catalyst was

00:11:23

Israel's attack on on the Hamas

00:11:25

negotiating team in Doha which was

00:11:28

unbelievably ill advised. It was a

00:11:31

catastrophic failure. They didn't kill

00:11:33

anyone from the Hamas negotiating team.

00:11:34

They killed a Qatari security guy and

00:11:37

other people unconnected with Hamas. And

00:11:40

the approprium this brought uh on Israel

00:11:43

from all the leading uh leaders of the

00:11:46

Middle Eastern countries and states

00:11:47

around there was tremendous. They all

00:11:50

got on the phone to Trump and then an

00:11:51

extraordinary thing happened. Donald

00:11:53

Trump made Netanyahu get on the phone

00:11:56

and apologized to the prime minister of

00:11:58

Katar. I've never heard of anything

00:12:00

quite like that happening. It was a

00:12:02

public humiliation for Netanyahu and it

00:12:05

showed me that that Trump does wield a

00:12:08

lot of power. I mean, if Trump was to

00:12:09

suddenly say, "We are withdrawing all

00:12:12

military support and financial support

00:12:14

for Israel," then Israel could not be

00:12:16

the superpower that it is in the Middle

00:12:18

East.

00:12:20

>> You're absolutely right. There's no

00:12:22

question about it. Israel is amazingly

00:12:26

dependent on the United States. Uh

00:12:29

Israel, when I was younger, prided

00:12:32

itself on the ability to provide for its

00:12:34

own security. Israel did not want to be

00:12:37

in a situation where it had to rely on

00:12:39

another country for its defense and it's

00:12:42

reached a point where it is extremely

00:12:44

dependent on the United States and this

00:12:46

is not good from is for Israel from

00:12:49

Israel's point of view. But the fact is

00:12:52

the United States is not going to cut

00:12:55

off its aid uh and assistance to Israel.

00:12:58

It's just not going to happen. And

00:13:00

President Trump has never given any

00:13:03

indication that he would do that. Uh

00:13:07

when President Trump says to Benjamin

00:13:09

Netanyahu, "If you don't accept a

00:13:12

two-state solution, I will cut off all

00:13:14

aid, then I will apologize to you and

00:13:18

say that you were right and I was

00:13:20

wrong." But he has never even come close

00:13:22

to that. As much as both you and I would

00:13:25

like to see that happen,

00:13:28

>> when they talk about an interim

00:13:31

uh kind of administration in Gaza and

00:13:34

want to include Tony Blair, how feasible

00:13:36

is it that Blair could be credibly

00:13:38

involved in something like that? Trump

00:13:40

has been saying he have to look at it

00:13:42

today, but there's been a lot of unrest

00:13:43

there about Tony Blair's involvement

00:13:45

given his track record with Iraq and so

00:13:47

on. >> Yeah.

00:13:50

Yeah. I think that Trump is beginning to

00:13:52

back off on the idea of putting Tony uh

00:13:55

Blair on the board of peace. I think

00:13:57

there's no question about that. But the

00:14:00

key issue you want to ask yourself,

00:14:02

peers, is who is going to govern Gaza

00:14:06

moving forward? If you're a Palestinian,

00:14:09

whether you're in Hamas or not, you want

00:14:11

the Palestinians to be in a position

00:14:14

where they determine their own future.

00:14:16

Right? If you're a Palestinian, you want

00:14:18

to run your own politics. And if you

00:14:21

look at the arrangement that President

00:14:23

Trump has set up, the Palestinians are

00:14:25

not running their own politics. And by

00:14:28

the way, he's decided that at some point

00:14:30

down the road, the Palestinian Authority

00:14:34

after it has been re-educated can take

00:14:37

over in Gaza. And you sort of say to

00:14:40

yourself, from a Palestinian point of

00:14:42

view, what is this telling you?

00:14:43

President Trump is going to decide who

00:14:46

runs Gaza. This is unacceptable to us as

00:14:49

Palestinians. And this is the basic

00:14:52

problem that you face. Nobody in the

00:14:55

West and certainly the Israelis are

00:14:57

willing to allow the Palestinians to

00:14:59

determine their own fate or to have a

00:15:02

state of their own at the end of this

00:15:04

political process. And as long as you

00:15:06

don't do that, this conflict is going to

00:15:09

go on and on, especially when you

00:15:11

consider who's in the driver's seat in

00:15:13

Tel Aviv.

00:15:14

>> But but isn't the reality on the ground

00:15:16

there that Netanyahu operated a divide

00:15:18

in rule quite deliberately between Hamas

00:15:21

and the Palestinian Authority from 2006.

00:15:25

uh he seemed either oblivious or oddly

00:15:28

unconcerned by the fact that the

00:15:30

billions of dollars dollars he helped

00:15:32

funnel to Hamas was being squandered on

00:15:35

this elaborate tunnel system. Um as he

00:15:38

was totally oblivious it seemed to any

00:15:41

warnings of what may happen on October

00:15:43

the 7th which seems extraordinary to me

00:15:45

given the powers that the Mossad has.

00:15:48

But that actually the only logical way

00:15:51

surely going forward is to no longer

00:15:53

have a separate Palestinian government

00:15:57

in the West Bank and Gaza, but to have a

00:16:00

united government for both areas because

00:16:04

they've shown that where you have two

00:16:06

actually it can lead to massive

00:16:08

instability which is what I think

00:16:10

Netanyahu wanted but he didn't realize

00:16:13

just how how bad it would get. Is there

00:16:16

not a logic in having the same governing

00:16:18

body in both the West Bank and Gaza?

00:16:23

>> Yes, there is. And if you're in favor of

00:16:26

a two-state solution, as you are, then

00:16:29

you want the Palestinian authority to be

00:16:32

in charge, not only in the West Bank,

00:16:34

where they're now in charge, but in Gaza

00:16:37

as well. But you want to understand that

00:16:41

Benjamin Netanyahu

00:16:43

wanted Hamas in charge in Gaza because

00:16:46

they don't want a two-state solution. I

00:16:49

agree.

00:16:50

>> And Benjamin not

00:16:51

>> and he's made it clear to President

00:16:53

Trump now that he does not want the

00:16:56

Palestinian Authority to take over in

00:16:58

Gaza because his great fear is that that

00:17:01

will be mean movement toward a two-state

00:17:04

solution which he doesn't want. This is

00:17:06

the great problem that we face. It's the

00:17:09

Israelis more than anything who were

00:17:12

opposed to a two-state solution.

00:17:14

>> And you don't think a change of

00:17:16

leadership in Israel could have any

00:17:18

impact on that?

00:17:21

>> Well, it's widely believed in the West,

00:17:24

as you know, that the problem here is

00:17:26

Benjamin Netanyahu. And if only we can

00:17:29

get rid of Benjamin Netanyahu, then

00:17:31

enlightened Israelis will come to power

00:17:33

and will live happily ever after. This

00:17:36

is not true. Benjamin Netanyahu gets

00:17:38

elected time after time because his

00:17:41

views reflect the views of most

00:17:44

Israelis. And I believe that no matter

00:17:47

who is driving the train in Israel, he

00:17:51

or she will be committed to cleansing uh

00:17:54

both the West Bank and Gaza. They want a

00:17:57

greater Israel that has almost all Jews

00:18:01

and no Palestinians.

00:18:04

Let's turn briefly to Ukraine because

00:18:06

Trump has said he wants to now go and

00:18:08

get that sorted. Albeit you don't think

00:18:11

he's sorted the Middle East, but let's

00:18:12

let's assume for a moment he thinks he

00:18:14

has or at least got it on the right

00:18:16

track by getting a ceasefire and the

00:18:18

hostages released. Where are we with

00:18:21

Ukraine here? I mean, Trump's been

00:18:22

talking about he has several

00:18:24

conversations with President Zalinski in

00:18:26

which they apparently discussed the use

00:18:28

of tomahawk missiles that America may

00:18:30

give the Ukrainians to fire into Russia.

00:18:33

How significant is that in terms of an

00:18:35

escalation of American involvement? And

00:18:38

where are we with the war, do you think?

00:18:42

>> Well, I think in terms of the war, it's

00:18:44

quite clear that the Russians are

00:18:46

winning on the battlefield. Uh the head

00:18:50

of the Ukrainian army admits that his

00:18:52

soldiers are outnumbered 3 to one

00:18:56

overall on the front lines and six to

00:18:59

one in some critically important places.

00:19:02

And when you look at the balance of

00:19:03

firepower, it greatly favors the

00:19:06

Russians. So the Russians are slowly but

00:19:09

steadily winning and the Ukrainians are

00:19:12

losing. And the question is what can the

00:19:14

west do about this? Uh and the answer is

00:19:17

not much. There was talk for a while as

00:19:20

you remember about secondary sanctions.

00:19:22

This is where we put sanctions on India

00:19:24

and China as a way of punishing Russia.

00:19:27

We've given up on that. So there's no

00:19:29

economical.

00:19:30

>> Just on that point though, it's

00:19:31

interesting. I mean, he's put 50% tariff

00:19:34

on India and he's cited the fact that

00:19:37

they they buy too much oil and energy

00:19:39

from Russia as the reason. Is that not

00:19:42

an indication that Trump wants to try

00:19:44

and destabilize Russia economically and

00:19:47

that the best way to do that is to bring

00:19:49

big purchases of his energy like India

00:19:52

back into line by using very high

00:19:55

aggressive tariffs against them until

00:19:56

they until they stop buying Russian

00:19:58

energy. Is that not what he's up to and

00:20:00

is that not potentially quite an

00:20:02

interesting strategy?

00:20:04

I think one can argue just as you do

00:20:07

that putting 50% tariffs on India was

00:20:10

designed to get India to break off its

00:20:13

importing of oil from Russia. But what

00:20:16

happened? It didn't work. In fact, it

00:20:18

backfired. It pushed the Indians and the

00:20:21

Russians closer. It pushed the Indians,

00:20:23

the Russians, and the Chinese closer. It

00:20:26

just simply didn't work. We have no

00:20:28

economic lever. And now we're flailing

00:20:31

around talking about the possibility of

00:20:33

giving Tomahawk missiles uh to the

00:20:36

Ukrainians. I don't believe that we have

00:20:39

the Tomahawk missiles to give to the

00:20:41

Ukrainians. I don't believe Trump would

00:20:43

give them to the Ukrainians. But even if

00:20:46

he does, it's not going to matter very

00:20:48

much at all. Remember, we gave him a

00:20:50

tack and that was supposed to be a

00:20:52

war-winning weapon. We gave them

00:20:55

highars. We gave them F-16s. Those were

00:20:58

all supposed to be the magic bullets.

00:21:01

None of them panned out. The idea that

00:21:03

giving the Ukrainians tomahawks is going

00:21:06

to turn this one around, shift the tide

00:21:08

against the Russians, uh, and in

00:21:11

Ukraine's favor is delusional. The fact

00:21:14

is Ukraine is going to lose the war. The

00:21:18

West is going to lose the war. That's a

00:21:20

bitter pill to swallow, but that is

00:21:23

reality. And if you were President

00:21:26

Trump, what could you do that would have

00:21:29

a an effect on Putin to deter him from

00:21:33

continuing to prosecute the war or to

00:21:35

expand it?

00:21:38

>> Well, I think there's nothing that

00:21:39

President Trump can do. The Russians

00:21:42

have made it unequivocally clear since

00:21:44

the start of this war what their goals

00:21:46

are. They have three principal goals.

00:21:50

Ukraine has to be neutral. It can't be a

00:21:52

NATO. It can't have meaningful security

00:21:55

guarantees. Number one. Number two,

00:21:57

Ukraine and the West have to accept the

00:21:59

four Oblasts that Russia has next now

00:22:03

belong to Russia plus the Crimea. And

00:22:06

then number three, Ukraine has to be

00:22:09

disarmed to the point where it doesn't

00:22:11

have significant offensive capability

00:22:14

against Russia. Those are conditions

00:22:17

that the Russians have set out and are

00:22:19

determined to stick to. And there's no

00:22:22

way Trump can do anything to move them

00:22:25

away from those conditions. And the

00:22:27

Russians are willing to fight until they

00:22:30

create a situation where they get those

00:22:32

conditions. And that's where we are

00:22:34

today. So, President Trump, I think,

00:22:38

would like to work out a deal. He'd like

00:22:40

to take into account what Russia's

00:22:42

demands are and work out a deal. But

00:22:45

even if he did work out a deal, he could

00:22:47

not get the Europeans and the Ukrainians

00:22:50

to agree to that deal. They simply

00:22:53

wouldn't accept it. So what Trump is

00:22:55

actually doing, peers, if you watch

00:22:57

carefully, is he's distancing himself

00:23:00

from this conflict. He's turning over

00:23:03

the responsibility for running the

00:23:05

conflict to the Europeans. He's making

00:23:09

them buy weapons from the United States

00:23:12

to give to Ukraine. The United States is

00:23:14

not directly giving weapons to the

00:23:17

Ukrainians anymore. And furthermore,

00:23:19

Trump is doing just enough so that when

00:23:23

Ukraine goes under, he cannot be blamed.

00:23:26

For example, on the sanctions, think

00:23:28

about the secondary sanctions we were

00:23:30

talking about a minute ago. Trump said

00:23:34

very cleverly that he would agree to the

00:23:37

secondary sanctions if the Europeans

00:23:40

also agreed to the secondary sanctions.

00:23:43

The Europeans, of course, are in no

00:23:45

position to accept the secondary

00:23:47

sanctions. So, President Trump says,

00:23:50

"I'm in favor of secondary sanctions,

00:23:52

but the United States is not going to

00:23:54

bear the sole burden of putting those

00:23:56

sanctions on Russia. And since the

00:23:58

Europeans won't go along, we won't go

00:24:00

along. So Trump can't be blamed. He's

00:24:03

blaming the Europeans. So Trump is

00:24:06

slowly but steadily weaning himself,

00:24:09

weaning the United States from the

00:24:11

Ukraine conflict because he understands

00:24:14

it's a lost cause and he wants to turn

00:24:16

it over to the Europeans and the

00:24:19

Ukrainians to figure out how to put an

00:24:21

end to it. If if Putin wins in Ukraine

00:24:26

though, what is to stop him doing this

00:24:28

elsewhere?

00:24:30

the fact that he had so much difficulty

00:24:34

and paid such an awful price just

00:24:37

conquering the eastern 15th of Ukraine

00:24:41

means that he does not have the

00:24:43

capability to conquer all of Ukraine

00:24:46

much less invade countries in Eastern

00:24:49

Europe. When you look at the raw

00:24:51

capability of the Russian army, there is

00:24:54

no way it can conquer all of Ukraine

00:24:57

plus territory in Eastern Europe.

00:25:00

Furthermore, when you look at what Putin

00:25:02

has said over time, he has never once

00:25:05

said that he was interested in

00:25:07

conquering all of Ukraine and he never

00:25:10

has once said that he was con interested

00:25:13

in conquering any territory in Eastern

00:25:16

Europe. this idea that he is you know uh

00:25:19

interested in recreating the Soviet

00:25:22

Union and then the Soviet Empire and

00:25:24

Eastern Europe is a figment of

00:25:27

Westerners imaginations.

00:25:30

Final question, Professor Misha, because

00:25:32

you probably know the answer to this,

00:25:33

but that there is a belief, I think

00:25:35

Steven Pinker has talked about this,

00:25:37

that despite all the attention we have

00:25:39

with the Israel Hamas war and Russia

00:25:42

Ukraine, that this is actually in terms

00:25:45

of warfare, the least wararmongering

00:25:49

period in recorded history. That

00:25:51

actually there are fewer wars raging now

00:25:54

than there have ever been. Is that your

00:25:56

sense?

00:26:00

Uh I think that what's important to

00:26:02

understand uh peers is that the war in

00:26:06

Ukraine is uh a war that bears marked

00:26:11

resemblance to World War I. And

00:26:13

furthermore, one can make a case that

00:26:15

the United States is almost at war or at

00:26:19

war with Russia.

00:26:21

>> And this is what makes this period so

00:26:24

special and so dangerous. We have one

00:26:27

particular war that stands out above all

00:26:30

the other wars that we have seen

00:26:33

actually since World War II. You and I

00:26:36

are old enough to remember the Cold War.

00:26:38

We had nothing like the Ukraine war

00:26:41

during the Cold War. It was unthinkable

00:26:44

that the United States would support a

00:26:47

country like Ukraine that invaded mother

00:26:51

Russia during the Cold War or supported

00:26:54

a country like Ukraine that struck at

00:26:57

the Russian strategic nuclear forces.

00:27:00

This is a really remarkable development

00:27:03

in terms of where we are today. And if

00:27:05

you look at the battlefield, what you

00:27:07

see in eastern Ukraine does bear marked

00:27:10

resemblance to what you saw on the

00:27:11

Western Front in World War I. So I think

00:27:14

it's that war that makes people think

00:27:17

that this period is so different. And in

00:27:19

that sense, it is very different. But in

00:27:22

terms of whether or not they're more or

00:27:24

less wars now than over past decades, I

00:27:27

think nothing much has changed there.

00:27:29

But most of those wars were relatively

00:27:32

small wars, nothing like the Ukraine

00:27:34

war.

00:27:35

>> Professor M. Shimmer, it's always a

00:27:37

pleasure to have you on our sensor.

00:27:39

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

00:27:42

>> Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly

00:27:43

independent. The only boss around here

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is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for

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00:28:05

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Description:

Amid the positivity and relief about the prospect of peace in Gaza, not everybody has been thrilled by the sight of the US president honouring Prime Minister Netanyahu in the Knesset. The fact remains that more people now than ever, including among Trump’s base, are deeply uncomfortable about Israel’s influence on US politics and deeply skeptical about the prospects of a lasting peace with Netanyahu still in power. International relations scholar Professor John Mearsheimer joins Piers Morgan to give his analysis. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Ground News: Ground News: Go to https://ground.news/landingV8/piersmorgan for 40% off the Vantage subscription and find the truth mainstream media doesn't want you to see. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Birch Gold: Visit https://freekit.birchgold.com/piers-morgan-gold-ira/?msid=56560&subid=web to get your free info kit on gold. 00:00 Introduction and monologue 01:21 John Mearsheimer's assessment of the Gaza ceasefire 05:50 Piers on skepticism over Palestinians being allowed to return to their homeland 06:18 Who is going to run Gaza? 09:30 Saudi Arabia and the Abraham Accords 11:27 Israel’s attack on Doha 16:07 A two-state solution or the same governing body in Gaza and the West bank? 19:40 Trump and destabilizing Russia 25:40 Are there fewer wars raging now than before? Subscribe to stay up-to-date on all Uncensored content. Follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on: X: https://x.com/PiersUncensored Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@piersmorganuncensored Follow Piers Morgan on: X: https://x.com/piersmorgan Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser

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