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00:00:00
The Joe Rogan Experience00:00:02
work that I've done in the past,00:00:04
particularly with the Urban Explorers,00:00:05
has got me into a lot of trouble. I I00:00:07
mean, I got arrested. Um, my all of the00:00:11
people that I worked with ended up00:00:12
getting arrested because the police got00:00:13
my [ __ ] notes00:00:15
and uh I mean, it was a it was a00:00:17
terrible How' the police get your notes?00:00:19
It was a terrible situation. Well, I So,00:00:21
we I was I was going out with these00:00:23
urban explorers into all of this00:00:25
subterranean infrastructure underneath00:00:28
London. And after we went into those00:00:30
sewer systems, then we got into00:00:31
electricity tunnels. Then we started00:00:33
getting into bunkers. So these are00:00:35
how illegal is this?00:00:36
These are like layers under the city. So00:00:38
you know, imagine there's like, you00:00:39
know, five layers under the city, right?00:00:41
So we we go from those sewers to the00:00:42
electricity totals to the00:00:44
uh infrastructural systems to the00:00:46
bunkers. And then we started getting00:00:48
into what are called deep level systems,00:00:50
right? Right. And they're kind they're00:00:51
they're very similar to uh the bunkers00:00:55
that the US government is building here00:00:57
that they called they call dums deep00:00:59
underground military bases. Right. We00:01:01
started getting into like serious00:01:03
critical infrastructure. Like at some00:01:06
point how easy was it to get into those?00:01:08
It it took us years. It took us years.00:01:11
It was quite a lot of research. Wow.00:01:13
But I mean at some point we got into uh00:01:16
what are called the the the BT deeple00:01:18
tunnels, the British telecommunications00:01:19
deep level tunnels. And we were like00:01:21
inside the telecommunications trunk for00:01:24
all of the United Kingdom, you know. Um00:01:29
and at this point we're like, you know,00:01:31
100 ft underground, 120 ft underground.00:01:34
We were actually we were walking through00:01:37
uh this tunnel about you know about 10000:01:40
feet underground and and one of the00:01:42
explorers I was with is like there's a00:01:44
there's a manhole above us. I was like00:01:45
what do what do you mean there's a00:01:46
manhole above us you know we're like00:01:48
we're in the deepest level right now. Um00:01:51
and we pop this manhole and and a camera00:01:54
swivels you know and stares at us like00:01:56
oh god you know and then we realized we00:01:59
were into some some critical [ __ ] So00:02:02
what was it? What we it it was just it00:02:04
was just telecommunication hubs, right?00:02:06
It's just like the trunk of all of the00:02:08
the the the infrastructure for fiber00:02:11
optics and phone lines.00:02:12
And they just have an exposed manhole00:02:14
cover and a tunnel that you can get to.00:02:16
Dude, we wiggled through like we wiggled00:02:17
from tunnel to tunnel like through tiny00:02:19
crevices. We were getting into like the00:02:21
deep underbelly of the city. I mean, it00:02:23
was not it was not easy to get to. But00:02:25
but here's the thing. At the same time,00:02:27
we had been cracking all of the the00:02:29
abandoned tube stations, metro stations00:02:32
in London, right? So, we took a we took00:02:35
a map of the tube from 1932 and we set a00:02:39
map from uh 2008 on top of it and what00:02:43
you see are a bunch of stations that are00:02:44
no longer on the map, right? That's your00:02:47
first clue. So, there were like 40ome.00:02:49
Then we then we started doing research00:02:51
and we figured out that there there's00:02:53
got to be at least 14 stations that00:02:56
still have like ticket offices or00:02:58
platforms or there like there's00:02:59
something there that you could find. So00:03:02
we started sneaking into the tube to go00:03:04
and find these places. Like we would00:03:06
wait till the train stopped at 2 in the00:03:08
morning and then we would like climb up00:03:09
a bridge and get onto the tracks and00:03:11
we'd run through the tunnels and we and00:03:13
we were finding these stations one after00:03:15
another. incredible time capsules, you00:03:18
know, where there were artifacts left00:03:21
behind, posters, like we'd find tickets00:03:23
on the ground that were 40 40 years old,00:03:26
you know, I mean, really cool stuff.00:03:27
Some of a lot of these stations were00:03:29
were bombed out00:03:30
during World War II.00:03:32
Um, but uh finding these is like again00:03:35
this kind of like like here's the00:03:37
archaeologist, right? Like we were00:03:39
having this visceral connection to00:03:40
history. We were finding the stuff that00:03:41
was giving us like a real sense of being00:03:44
inside history in material terms.00:03:48
So, we're we're posting every time we00:03:50
crack one of these stations, we post it00:03:52
on our blogs. We're like, "Oh, we've you00:03:54
know, we've cracked Mark Lane, we've00:03:56
cracked Down Street, we've cracked00:03:58
whatever." And we're all excited about00:04:00
it. and we and like the windows00:04:02
narrowing and we we get we get towards00:04:05
the end of the 14 stations and we're00:04:08
starting to think, you know,00:04:11
like the cops are surely watching what00:04:14
we're doing, right? The British00:04:15
Transport Police and kind of know where00:04:18
we're going to go next because there's00:04:19
only a few stations left. So, we stop00:04:22
posting stuff. And on Christmas of 2012,00:04:25
we cracked the last station underneath00:04:26
the British Museum. Uh, which like00:04:29
there's all sorts of cool stories about00:04:31
like there was a there was a ghost in00:04:32
here. It's a haunted station or00:04:34
whatever. But we did it. We never got00:04:36
caught. So for me, this is the end of00:04:40
the research project.00:04:41
Is there a fear of being like00:04:43
retroactively00:04:46
prosecuted for this stuff?00:04:47
We'll get we'll get there.00:04:48
Oh,00:04:50
so I'm done with my research project.00:04:52
I've written my PhD. I published my00:04:54
first book, Explore Everything about all00:04:56
of our our uh or I hadn't published the00:04:58
book yet, actually. And I I fly to00:05:01
Cambodia to work on a totally different00:05:02
research project, right? Like I'm00:05:04
switching gears. I'm going to go do00:05:06
something else. And I fly back from00:05:09
Cambodia via Singapore and the plane00:05:12
lands at Heathrow. And you know, the00:05:14
thing goes ding and you stand up and you00:05:16
get your bags and then nothing's00:05:18
happening. And they say, "Can everyone00:05:20
please sit down again?" I sit down. I00:05:23
look out the plane and there's cop cars00:05:24
everywhere. And I'm like, "Oh shit." You00:05:27
know, I came from Singapore. Someone00:05:28
brought drugs. I don't know. There's a00:05:30
terrorist on the pl. Like, who? I have00:05:32
no idea what's going on. And the cops00:05:34
get on the plane and they're like, "42K,00:05:36
42K, Dr. Garrett. Yeah, you're coming00:05:39
with us."00:05:41
Okay. So, they cuff me.00:05:44
They they have me like retrieve my bag00:05:47
from the baggage claim and they take me00:05:49
through through passport control in00:05:51
handcuffs and obviously the UK00:05:53
government's like, "Yeah, we we'll go00:05:54
ahead and keep that passport. Thank00:05:56
you." So they eventually charge me with00:05:59
um conspiracy to commit criminal damage.00:06:03
Now, what's weird about England is that00:06:05
trespass isn't a criminal offense. So00:06:07
you can't you can't charge people with00:06:09
trespass unless you're in very specific00:06:12
circumstances. So, they tried out this00:06:14
charge of conspiracy to commit criminal00:06:16
damage because it's it's about00:06:18
intention. It's a thought crime. Like,00:06:20
if I text you and I'm like, "Hey, dude.00:06:23
Uh, you know, the bar is closed right00:06:25
now because of COVID. You want to break00:06:26
in and just like pour ourselves a beer?"00:06:28
And you're like, "Yeah, let's do it."00:06:30
Like, we've committed conspiracy to00:06:32
commit criminal damage.00:06:33
Like, we've committed to the crime.00:06:36
So, uh, anyway, we for years were00:06:40
dragged through the British legal system00:06:41
and I got trapped in the UK for three00:06:43
years.00:06:45
Yeah, I was they kept my passport, dude.00:06:47
I was trapped there.00:06:48
And here's where it gets really weird is00:06:50
that when the plane landed at Singapore,00:06:54
there was a a journalist from GQ who was00:06:57
supposed to meet us because we were00:06:59
going to take him into some of this00:07:00
subterranean infrastructure and show him00:07:02
all these spaces. And he's like, you00:07:05
know, by the time I got out of jail,00:07:06
like 48 hours later, um I had I had all00:07:09
these messages from like, you [ __ ] I00:07:11
came I showed up at the airport and you00:07:13
weren't there and whatever, you know,00:07:15
and I finally find this guy, Matthew00:07:17
Power, and and he's like, "Are you00:07:20
serious? Like you got cuz we had timed00:07:22
it to land at the same time." Yeah. And00:07:24
he's like, "You serious? You got00:07:25
arrested at that moment?"00:07:27
And he said, "What about your house?" I00:07:28
said, "I have no idea." So, we go to my00:07:30
house and we unlock the door with these00:07:32
keys that the police had given me00:07:34
because they took down my door with a00:07:35
battering ram,00:07:36
right? And then, you know, like put some00:07:38
padlocks on there that they drilled into00:07:40
the the door and the door frame. And I00:07:42
open it up and my apartment has just00:07:44
been ravaged, right? Like stuff00:07:46
everywhere. The mattress is flipped00:07:47
over, all the cupboards are torn apart,00:07:49
there's like pieces of the door all over00:07:51
the floor. And underneath all of it,00:07:54
there was a a job contract from the00:07:56
University of Oxford to do a posttock00:07:58
after I because I just finished my PhD.00:08:01
And the journalist from GQ is like,00:08:03
"Dude, I can go home right now. I've got00:08:04
this story. I don't need to explore00:08:06
anything. I'm done."00:08:08
And how did it resolve?00:08:09
Well, the um by the time we got to00:08:12
court, I mean, the the the prosecution00:08:14
was just in shambles. I mean, it was a00:08:17
total debacle because there was no00:08:18
evidence that we had broken anything,00:08:21
you know, or their laws. You had just00:08:23
trespassed, which isn't the law.00:08:24
We just trespassed. Yeah. But they00:08:26
spent, you know, £300,000,00:08:28
I don't know, $400,000 of taxpayer money00:08:31
to run this prosecution. So, they were00:08:32
going to see it to the end. And00:08:35
essentially, um, you know, they got they00:08:37
they confiscated my computers, my hard00:08:40
drives, my notebooks, and u that was00:08:43
that was a central component of the00:08:44
evidence that was used to prosecute00:08:47
everyone. So, essentially like I just00:08:49
made a deal with them. I was like,00:08:50
"Look, I'll I'll take a hit, you know,00:08:54
if you just like if everyone else can00:08:56
just get off, you know, I'll I'll take00:08:57
the hit for it." So, I plead guilty to00:09:00
uh uh I think it was four counts of00:09:02
criminal damage, which included damage00:09:05
to a screw from a board that I had taken00:09:08
off and put back on to a vent shaft.00:09:11
I know. Sliding sliding open a window.00:09:14
Oh, that was aiding in a bedding. So, I00:09:15
had opened a window for someone to crawl00:09:17
through. I mean, it was just like a list00:09:18
of ridiculous things, but they didn't00:09:20
care because they just they needed their00:09:22
they needed a win.00:09:23
They needed a win, you know. So, I gave00:09:25
them that. But now I've got now I've got00:09:27
this criminal record in England.00:09:28
So, when you land, you get pulled aside00:09:31
if you go to England.00:09:32
I I used to I actually filed a complaint00:09:34
with the government and I you know, they00:09:35
would like severely harass me. And then00:09:38
when I moved to Australia, I had the00:09:39
same problem. Like they had put flags on00:09:41
my passport.00:09:42
Um,00:09:43
and you filed a complaint and did it go00:09:44
through00:09:45
and I filed a complaint and they fixed00:09:46
it. They took the flags off the00:09:47
passport. Yeah.00:09:48
Essentially saying like, you know,00:09:51
I did my thing, you know. Yeah. Like why00:09:53
do I have to keep paying for this over00:09:55
and over again?00:09:56
But it was really funny when I tried00:09:58
when they when they originally gave me00:09:59
my passport back. So like I go to court00:10:01
and then there, you know, the judge is00:10:03
like, "Dr. Garrett, you're very naughty00:10:04
or whatever." You know, here's your00:10:06
here. Take your passport back.00:10:07
Do they have wigs on?00:10:08
Yes. Yeah. The wigs are fantastic.00:10:11
Really? Yeah. They still do that?00:10:12
Yeah, they still do that. They're really00:10:14
good. Wow. That's real.00:10:15
Yeah. Yeah. The barristers all have00:10:17
their wigs and they they carry them00:10:19
around like a like a cat, you know,00:10:21
and then they have to put it on when00:10:22
they're put on to do [ __ ] bonkers.00:10:25
But so I so they gave me my passport00:10:26
back and I and I the next day I was00:10:29
supposed to fly to Sydney to go speak at00:10:31
the the Festival of Dangerous Ideas. I00:10:34
was the obvious speaker, right? I was00:10:35
going and I go to the airport and the00:10:38
the guy swipes it and he's like,00:10:40
"Oh yeah, you don't want to use this."00:10:43
I was like, "What what does it say? What00:10:45
does the screen say? And he said, I I00:10:47
can't I can't relay that, but you should00:10:49
probably go. And gives me my passport00:10:52
back. And then I00:10:53
You should probably leave the country.00:10:55
No, like you should not get on a plane00:10:57
with this. Like you're going to have a00:10:58
problem on the other side, you know,00:11:00
whatever he says. Well, how else can you travel?00:11:02
Well, exactly. So then, so then I I00:11:04
missed my flight and I had to go back. I00:11:06
had to go to the US embassy and I'm00:11:08
like, you know, I've just tried to fly00:11:10
with my passport and it doesn't work.00:11:13
And the guy at the embassy swipes it and00:11:14
he says, 'Oh, wow. And then he and then00:11:17
he gets out a hole puncher and he goes00:11:18
dunk dunk dunk right through my passport00:11:21
and he says, "I you shouldn't use that."00:11:23
And then like 3 hours later they gave me00:11:25
another passport and I flew out the next00:11:26
day.00:11:27
And the passport's good. The new one's00:11:28
good. It's fine. Yeah.00:11:29
Wow.00:11:30
But then I but then I started getting00:11:31
stopped again. So they like I don't know00:11:33
tack the flags on there later.00:11:35
God. I mean it was a real ordeal. But the you00:11:37
know the thing00:11:39
I mean it was it was it was traumatic00:11:41
for me of course. I was like stuck in a00:11:42
foreign country and you know like you00:11:44
get worried about your income. I get was00:11:46
worried about being they did try to00:11:47
deport me at some point because once you00:11:50
have a criminal offense they try and00:11:51
deport. So anyway I beat that down.00:11:54
Did they find you? Like what was the00:11:56
ultimate judgment?00:11:57
Yeah it was I think it was two 2,00000:12:00
about $3,000 I got fined. Um not00:12:04
not too bad. It's not a big deal.00:12:05
Sure you made some money off the book.00:12:07
If not you're going to make some now.00:12:08
You know what dude? I I made I made uh00:12:11
all the money that I made on my first00:12:13
book, Explore Everything, went to my00:12:14
lawyers, who I have to say were00:12:16
phenomenal. Like they did a great job.00:12:18
But it was like every time I get a00:12:19
royalty check, I just sign it over to00:12:21
them, you know. And it did seem like00:12:23
karma. It was like, well, I broke into00:12:24
all this [ __ ] and then I wrote a book00:12:26
and then the money went to the lawyers00:12:27
and the lawyers got me off and it all00:12:29
kind of worked out.00:12:34
[Applause]Description:
Taken from JRE #1515 w/Dr. Bradley Garrett: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kDKAOncclU
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