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Table of contents
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Table of contents

0:00
Introduction
1:10
Opening Thoughts on U.S. Military Action in Venezuela
9:28
David Rothkopf
11:52
The Role and Decline of the National Security Council
25:56
Current Administration's Disarray
29:35
Trump's Threats to Other Leaders
31:36
US-Venezuela Relations and Oil Politics
32:27
Geopolitical Implications of US Actions
36:39
National Security Council's Role and Challenges
37:45
Trump's Doctrine and Historical Context
47:58
The Importance of Policy Processes
51:45
Rudyard Kipling’s “Recessional”
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On this week’s episode of “The David Frum Show,” The Atlantic’s David Frum discusses the American seizure of Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro and President Donald Trump’s deeply flawed thinking about Venezuelan oil. David argues that Trump’s worldview of exploitation and predation is likely to doom his ambitions in Venezuela rather than secure them. David is then joined by the national-security analyst David Rothkopf to examine the U.S. military operation in Venezuela and the Trump administration’s alarming lack of a coherent plan for what comes next. Rothkopf explores what it means for a president to sideline or altogether ignore the National Security Council before launching a major military action. Together, Rothkopf and Frum speculate about possible outcomes of the Maduro operation that Trump appears not to have considered. Finally, David closes with his thoughts on Rudyard Kipling’s “Recessional” and the poem’s warning about national boasting, overreach, and the perils of collective foolishness. Sign up for David Frum’s newsletter alert to find out when a new story is published: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/?follow=true Subscribe to “The David Frum Show” on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-david-frum-show/id1305908387 Subscribe to “The David Frum Show” on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/79CBHEDdEbdykveVgbpWs7 Follow The Atlantic on Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/Listener. Subscribe to The Atlantic on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAtlantic?sub_confirmation=1 00:00 Introduction 01:10 Opening Thoughts on U.S. Military Action in Venezuela 09:28 David Rothkopf 11:52 The Role and Decline of the National Security Council 25:56 Current Administration's Disarray 29:35 Trump's Threats to Other Leaders 31:36 US-Venezuela Relations and Oil Politics 32:27 Geopolitical Implications of US Actions 36:39 National Security Council's Role and Challenges 37:45 Trump's Doctrine and Historical Context 47:58 The Importance of Policy Processes 51:45 Rudyard Kipling’s “Recessional”

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