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00:00:00
[Music]00:00:30
thank you very much00:00:32
hahahaha thank you very much for showing00:00:36
up again that's a really good to see00:00:38
everybody here so one of the things that00:00:45
I've been realizing as a consequence of00:00:49
going through these stories is that the00:00:54
degree to which they're about00:00:55
individuals is quite remarkable and I00:00:58
think that's really telling you know one00:01:01
of the reasons I prefer Dostoevsky to00:01:03
Tolstoy is because Tolstoy is more of a00:01:05
sociologist he's more interested in the00:01:08
relationship between groups of people00:01:10
this is an oversimplification because00:01:12
obviously Tolstoy is a great author but00:01:14
I like dusty husky better because he00:01:16
really delves into the souls of00:01:18
individuals and I think it's remarkable00:01:20
the degree to which all of the stories00:01:24
that we've covered so far in Genesis are00:01:27
about individuals and they're quite00:01:30
realistic which is quite remarkable -00:01:32
they're not really romanticized to any00:01:34
great degree because all of the people00:01:37
that are regard as regarded let's say as00:01:39
patriarchal or matriarchal figures in00:01:41
Genesis have no shortage of ethical if00:01:45
no shortage of ethical flaws and also no00:01:48
shortage of difficulties in their life00:01:49
and the difficulties are realistic there00:01:51
they're major-league problems you know00:01:54
like familial catastrophes and famine00:01:56
and war and revenge and hatred and all00:01:59
those things it's not a it's not a00:02:01
pretty it's not a pretty book and that's00:02:04
one of the things that makes it great I00:02:06
mean that's one of the things that00:02:08
characterizes great literature right is00:02:09
that it doesn't present you with a00:02:11
whitewashed view of humanity or of00:02:15
existence and that's really a relief I00:02:18
think because as you all know because00:02:20
you're alive there's no such thing as a00:02:22
whitewash existence like you're to be00:02:26
alive is to be in trouble00:02:28
ethically and existentially I've been00:02:33
reading this book recently00:02:35
I'll talk about it a little bit later00:02:37
it's called better never to have a bean00:02:39
and it was written by a philosopher00:02:42
in South Africa in Cape Town name00:02:45
Benatar that's his last name and he00:02:48
basically argues I think it's a specious00:02:52
argument and I think it's artificially00:02:54
constructed but he basically argues that00:02:57
because life is so full of suffering00:03:00
even good lives are very much full of00:03:03
suffering that it's wrong to bring00:03:07
children into the world because the00:03:09
suffering outweighs the good even in00:03:11
good lives and it's actually wrong it00:03:13
would also be better not to exist for00:03:15
exactly the same reason and my sense in00:03:19
reading the book is that he came to that00:03:20
conclusion and then wrote the book to00:03:22
justify it which is actually the reverse00:03:24
of the way that you should write a book00:03:26
what you should do when you're writing a00:03:28
book is you should have a question and00:03:29
you should it should be a real question00:03:32
right it should be one you don't know00:03:33
the answer to and then you should be00:03:35
studying and writing like mad and00:03:37
reading everything you can get your00:03:38
hands on to see if you can actually00:03:40
grapple with the problem and come to00:03:42
some solution and you should walk the00:03:43
reader as well through your process of00:03:46
thinking so that they can come to the00:03:48
well not necessary to the same00:03:50
conclusion but at least track what00:03:51
you're doing and I don't think that's00:03:54
what he did I think he wrote it00:03:55
backwards but then and so I was thinking00:03:57
about it a lot because that's actually a00:04:01
question that I've contended with in my00:04:03
writing there are Memphis da Philly and00:04:07
our satanic figures for example in girth00:04:09
is Faust and also Ivan in in that in the00:04:13
brothers karamasoff who basically make00:04:15
the same case you know that existence is00:04:17
so rife with trouble and suffering that00:04:20
it would be better if it didn't exist at00:04:23
all and the problem I've had with that00:04:25
there's a variety of them but one of the00:04:28
problems I've had with that is what00:04:29
happens if you start to think that way00:04:31
because what I've observed is that00:04:33
people who begin to think that way that00:04:35
isn't where they stop like that they get00:04:38
angry at existence which is what00:04:39
happened to Cain as we saw in the Cain00:04:41
and Abel story and then the next step is00:04:43
to start taking revenge against00:04:45
existence and that cascades until it's00:04:48
revenge against well I think the best00:04:50
way of thinking about it is revenge00:04:51
against God for the crime of being which00:04:54
is I think the deepest sort of hatred00:04:55
that00:04:56
can entertain and and and when you're in00:04:59
the grip of a really deep emotion like a00:05:00
really profound emotion right at the00:05:03
bottom of emotions you're in something00:05:05
that's like a quasi-religious state and00:05:07
that's more or less independent of your00:05:08
belief saying a transcendent deity I00:05:10
mean you can be in a profoundly00:05:12
emotional state that's as deep as it can00:05:14
be and it can have religious00:05:16
significance without that necessarily00:05:17
signifying anything about a transcendent00:05:19
being you know but but then I was00:05:22
thinking you see the problem with that00:05:24
argument is you can gerrymander it00:05:26
endlessly you know because first of all00:05:28
how do you measure suffering and how do00:05:30
you measure happiness it's like how do00:05:31
you assign weights to them and god00:05:34
there's just no way of doing that you00:05:35
have to do it arbitrarily and so you can00:05:39
make an argument that the suffering00:05:40
outweighs the happiness you just wait00:05:42
the suffering more heavily than you wait00:05:43
the happiness and that's the end of that00:05:45
you know and so that's that's a problem00:05:47
but I think there's a deeper problem and00:05:50
I was reading this other book while back00:05:54
as well which was written by the guy who00:05:57
ran the human genome project and I don't00:06:01
remember exactly what it was called but00:06:02
it was something like a scientists case00:06:04
for God is something like that and one00:06:07
of the things he referred to which00:06:09
didn't strike me as hard as it should00:06:11
have to begin with was the he thought00:06:14
that one of the phenomena say that00:06:18
justified a belief in a transcendent00:06:20
being was something like the moral00:06:22
intuition of human beings that you know00:06:24
we have a sense of right and wrong and00:06:26
you know it's certainly in what happens00:06:29
in Genesis in the story of Adam and Eve00:06:30
is that that that story announces the00:06:34
coming of the sense of right and wrong00:06:36
right the knowledge of good and evil and00:06:37
it isn't something we ascribe to animals00:06:39
it's something that's unique to human00:06:41
beings animals can be predators and you00:06:44
know and they can be gentle and and you00:06:46
can have a relationship with them but00:06:48
you never think of an evil cat or you00:06:50
know or an evil wolf even though they're00:06:52
you know they're predatory about human00:06:56
beings we have this capacity to judge00:06:59
between good and evil right and wrong00:07:01
and it's really an integral part of our00:07:03
being and I think you can make an00:07:06
evolutionary case for that a biological00:07:07
case for that as you can00:07:09
make a biological case for most of what00:07:13
is relevant about human beings because00:07:15
we're biological creatures but we don't00:07:18
really understand the significance of00:07:19
that like what happens in the story of00:07:21
Adam and Eve is that that's that00:07:23
realization not coming to the knowledge00:07:25
of good and evil is actually represented00:07:27
as a shift of cosmic significance right00:07:29
it puts a it puts a permanent fracture00:07:31
in the structure of being and you know00:07:34
if you think of human beings as00:07:35
insignificant ants on a tiny dust mote00:07:39
in the middle of an infinite cosmos00:07:41
cosmos that cares less for us then who00:07:45
cares fundamentally if human beings have00:07:47
the knowledge to distinguish between00:07:49
good and evil but if you give00:07:51
consciousness a central role in being00:07:53
and you can make a perfectly reasonable00:07:55
case for that because without00:07:56
consciousness there's no being as far as00:07:59
anyone can determine so it may be much00:08:02
more central than we think and and I00:08:05
really don't think there's a00:08:06
counter-argument to that like not a00:08:08
solid one you can state that00:08:10
consciousness is epiphenomena land and00:08:12
that the world is fundamentally00:08:13
materialistic and it doesn't matter that00:08:15
there's consciousness you can state that00:08:17
but you can make an equally credible00:08:19
case the other way and certainly our00:08:21
lived experience is that consciousness00:08:23
is crucial obviously and we treat each00:08:26
other as if most of the time we're00:08:28
valuable conscious beings and we00:08:31
wouldn't give up our consciousness even00:08:33
though it's often consciousness of00:08:34
suffering and so then I think another00:08:36
problem with the book is that it's it's00:08:40
sort of predicated on the idea that life00:08:41
is for happiness and I don't think00:08:44
that's right and I don't think that's00:08:46
how people experience life and I might00:08:47
be wrong but it seems to me that people00:08:51
experience life as something like a00:08:53
series of crucial ethical decisions it's00:08:57
something like that I mean when I just00:09:00
can't imagine maybe I'm being naive00:09:04
about this but I can't imagine that I00:09:06
can't imagine another being that's like00:09:10
me in in most senses that isn't00:09:13
constantly wrestling in some sense with00:09:17
what the next proper thing to do is it's00:09:19
not like it's obvious it's not bloody00:09:21
obvious and it00:09:22
doesn't mean you'll do the right thing00:09:24
because you don't law lots of times and00:09:26
you know that by your own judgement00:09:29
right because you're making mistakes all00:09:30
the time00:09:31
sometimes you don't know what you're00:09:32
doing and maybe it's a mistake and maybe00:09:33
it isn't and who's to say that isn't00:09:36
what I'm talking and what I'm talking00:09:37
about when you know that what you're00:09:38
doing is wrong and you go ahead and do00:09:40
it anyways people do that all the time00:09:41
and that's also extremely peculiar you00:09:44
bloody well think that if you knew it00:09:45
was wrong and you told yourself that it00:09:47
was wrong that that would be sufficient00:09:49
so that you just wouldn't do it but that00:09:51
isn't what you're like at all you know00:09:52
and you can tell yourself something is00:09:54
wrong a fifty times and you'll do it the00:09:56
51st time and then you'll feel you know00:09:58
like like you deserve to feel probably00:10:01
and but it doesn't stop you and so so00:10:04
then I think the other problem with the00:10:07
viewpoint the idea that the suffering of00:10:10
life eradicate sits utility is that it's00:10:13
predicated on the idea that happiness or00:10:16
lack of suffering even is is the right00:10:19
criteria by which to judge life and I00:10:21
don't think that's how we actually00:10:24
experience life I think what we do00:10:26
instead is put ourselves through a00:10:28
series of excruciating moral choices you00:10:32
know when one of the things that that's00:10:34
really significant about the biblical00:10:37
stories and I think about the the entire00:10:40
implicit philosophy you know that's00:10:44
embedded in the stories is that that's00:10:46
how life is presented in in the stories00:10:48
is all of these individuals first00:10:50
they're individuals - not groups and00:10:52
second they're agonizing over their00:10:55
moral choices all the time all the time00:10:57
and they have a relationship with God00:10:59
and but it's not a it's not a directive00:11:03
relationship exactly even for the people00:11:07
to whom God speaks directly which I00:11:09
suspect is not something you'd exactly00:11:11
want to have happen is it's there's00:11:15
still even the fact that they have a00:11:18
direct relationship with God doesn't00:11:19
stop them from being tormented00:11:21
continually by their moral choices and00:11:23
so the world is presented as a moral00:11:27
landscape not as a not as a place that00:11:30
justifies itself by happiness it's00:11:33
presented as a moral landscape and00:11:34
people are presented as00:11:36
preachers who traverse through the moral00:11:39
landscape making ethical decisions that00:11:42
determine the course of the world and00:11:44
that seems to me to be right and that's00:11:47
not a that's not the same as happiness00:11:49
by any stretch of the imagination it's a00:11:51
whole different category of being and00:11:55
you know and then I thought that through00:11:57
a lot and I think well we do make00:11:59
choices and what we do is contend with00:12:01
the future you know and that the future00:12:03
seems to appear to us as a realm of00:12:05
possibility that's a more accurate way00:12:09
of thinking about it then then that the00:12:10
future presents itself to it to us as a00:12:13
realm of determined things it's it's00:12:16
presents itself as a realm of00:12:18
possibility and there's good choices in00:12:19
that realm and there's poor choices or00:12:22
even evil choices in that realm and00:12:23
we're negotiating continually deciding00:12:27
which of those choices we're going to00:12:29
bring into being that seems to me to be00:12:31
phenomenologically indisputable and we00:12:34
certainly treat each other as if that's00:12:36
what we're doing because we hold each00:12:37
other responsible for our actions you00:12:39
know with some exceptions and that we're00:12:41
deciding each moment whether to make00:12:44
things better or worse and that seems to00:12:49
me to be correct and I think that that's00:12:52
what these stories illustrate they don't00:12:55
say that directly you know although I00:12:58
think it gets more and more explicit as00:12:59
the narrative unfolds but and then part00:13:03
of the realism of the stories is that00:13:06
the people aren't the people that are00:13:09
being presented are by no means good I00:13:12
mean maybe with the exception of Noah no00:13:14
one seemed to be a pretty good guile00:13:15
they did he did get drunk and you know00:13:17
and and end up naked exposed to his sons00:13:21
and so forth and but I mean he isn't00:13:25
talked about a lot as a character it's a00:13:27
pretty compressed story but Abraham I00:13:28
mean Abraham had plenty of problems not00:13:31
least of which was in his inability to00:13:32
leave home and then you know his lying00:13:35
about his wife and their there's all00:13:36
sorts of mistakes and then Jacob who00:13:38
were going to talk about tonight is an00:13:41
even more morally ambivalent character00:13:45
he's especially at the beginning of the00:13:47
story he's00:13:50
it's it's he isn't the sort of person00:13:54
that you would pick out especially if00:13:57
you were a hack writer you wouldn't pick00:13:59
him out as the hero of the story he does00:14:01
a lot of things that are really pretty00:14:03
reprehensible00:14:04
and takes him an awful long time to00:14:05
learn better and yet he's the person00:14:08
who's put forward as the father of the00:14:10
12 tribes of Israel it's from this00:14:12
flawed person that the people that that00:14:16
may be that whose story you might say is00:14:19
that the fundamental constitutes the00:14:23
fundamental underpinning of our culture00:14:25
it's it's from this deeply flawed00:14:26
individual that that group emerges and00:14:31
so you might think of that as a relief00:14:32
to because you know you're no knight in00:14:35
shining armor you know with with a with00:14:37
a pure moral past I mean people make00:14:40
mistakes of catastrophic proportions00:14:43
non-stop you know and that also means00:14:47
that these stories put forward something00:14:48
approximating hope because in their00:14:51
realism in their moral realism they00:14:54
present heroes I suppose the heroes of00:14:57
renown right the patriarchs of old let's00:15:00
say who are realistic people who have00:15:04
fits of anger and rage and who are00:15:06
murderous at times and who are deeply00:15:09
deeply embroiled with family dispute and00:15:13
and who who have adulterous affairs and00:15:16
and like they do all the terrible things00:15:19
that people do and the weird thing is is00:15:22
that God is still with them and you know00:15:26
it isn't obvious what that means or even00:15:29
if it means anything but it's very it's00:15:33
not disputable as far as I can tell that00:15:35
a were conscious and that consciousness00:15:39
is a transcendent phenomena which which00:15:41
we do not understand and that the00:15:43
landscape that we traverse through is00:15:45
moral like every story you ever watch00:15:47
anything that grips your imagination on00:15:49
the screen or in the theater like any00:15:51
story that grabs you is a story of moral00:15:54
striving it's just not interesting00:15:56
otherwise right the person has to be00:15:58
confronted with complex moral choices00:16:00
and then you see the outcome and you00:16:02
know the good guy doesn't00:16:03
and the bad guy does it badly and things00:16:05
don't go so well for the bad guy00:16:07
generally and if it's a bit more00:16:08
sophisticated than good and the bad are00:16:10
in the same individual and that's you00:16:12
know that's a more compelling story but00:16:20
so we could say well let's we could make00:16:23
the assumption that it might be00:16:24
worthwhile thinking of the world as a as00:16:27
it has been thought of classically as a00:16:29
theater upon which the forces of good00:16:31
and evil continually strive for00:16:35
dominance and I for the life of me00:16:38
especially after I started reading00:16:40
deeply into 20th century history and all00:16:42
the terrible things that happened in the00:16:44
20th century and all the terrible00:16:46
unbelievably incomprehensible things00:16:49
that people did to one another00:16:50
I just couldn't see seeing things any00:16:53
other way is realistic you know because00:16:57
I don't think that you can immerse00:17:00
yourself in 20th century history without00:17:01
coming to the conclusion that evil is a00:17:03
reality and if it's a reality that it00:17:07
depends on what you mean by reality but00:17:09
it's fundamental enough reality for me00:17:11
and if it's a reality then I don't see00:17:13
how you can escape from the conclusion00:17:15
that the cosmos as we experience it at00:17:18
least is a place of moral striving and00:17:23
well that's one of the things that's00:17:25
really illustrated in the story of Jacob00:17:27
and and I found that quite striking so00:17:35
so the last time last lecture I ended00:17:40
with the Abrahamic stories with the00:17:42
death of Sarah and that was Abraham's00:17:44
wife and so we're gonna continue from00:17:47
from there remember Abraham had a son00:17:50
Isaac and he was asked by God to00:17:53
sacrifice his son which we talked about00:17:55
in in some depth and I was attempting to00:18:00
make the case that you know the idea of00:18:02
sacrifice was one of humankind's great00:18:05
discoveries because it meant the00:18:07
discovery of the future essentially but00:18:09
it also meant the discovery that the00:18:11
future was something that you could make00:18:13
a bargain with and that you could give00:18:15
up something now something impulsive00:18:16
some pleasure even a deep pleasure in00:18:19
the moment and you could strive and00:18:22
hypothetically you could make a covenant00:18:24
a bargain with the future and if your00:18:26
sacrifices were acceptable and that00:18:29
seemed to mean an ethically acceptable00:18:30
you had to sacrifice the right thing00:18:32
that that vastly increased the00:18:34
probability that not only you would be00:18:36
successful let's say but that your00:18:39
descendants would be too and I don't00:18:42
think that that's an irrational00:18:43
proposition I mean you have to leave in00:18:46
it a bit with the realization that00:18:48
sometimes you know you get sliced off at00:18:50
the knees no matter what right because00:18:52
life has an arbitrary element and and00:18:54
that can't be tossed out but building in00:18:58
the arbitrary element will say you still00:19:01
want to think well what's your best bet00:19:02
given a certain amount of randomness and00:19:05
it seems to me that conscious self-aware00:19:08
sacrifice and proper ethical striving is00:19:11
your best bet and you know there's00:19:14
another idea that well I've always00:19:16
explained it when I've explained it to00:19:19
people I've always used the movie00:19:21
Pinocchio as an example you know that00:19:22
when Geppetto was trying to make his00:19:24
puppet into a self-aware and autonomous00:19:28
moral agent which is what he wants above00:19:32
all else you know he aims at the highest00:19:35
good that he can conceive which is the00:19:37
star that he prays to essentially and00:19:39
hopes for the transformation and there's00:19:42
also something in that that's00:19:43
unutterably profound and maybe that is00:19:46
somewhat independent of the idea that00:19:48
you00:19:49
have to believe in God I would also say00:19:51
that what it means to believe in God in00:19:53
the old testament is by no means clear00:19:55
and that's something I also really want00:19:57
to talk about tonight it's not obvious00:19:59
what it means and well Gepetto what he00:20:04
does at least is aim at the highest good00:20:07
of which he can conceive you know and00:20:09
that that's actually in a philosophical00:20:11
definition of God upon occasion that God00:20:14
is the highest good of which you00:20:15
conceive and you know that's different00:20:19
than the idea of a transcendent being00:20:22
precisely but it's in line with it's in00:20:25
line with certain interesting00:20:26
psychoanalytic speculations this is one00:20:28
of the things I really liked about Carl00:20:30
Jung you know Jung was so radical a thinker it's just00:20:33
beyond belief like I've read a lot of00:20:34
critics of you and I've always I've00:20:36
always got too kicked out of them00:20:37
because the things they accused Jung of00:20:39
are so trivial compared to the things00:20:41
that Jung actually did that it's like00:20:43
accusing a murderer of jaywalking like00:20:47
because Jung was unbelievably radical00:20:49
like here's one of his ideas you know he00:20:51
thought that it was necessary he00:20:54
believed that psychotherapy could be00:20:56
replaced by a supreme moral effort and00:20:58
so the moral effort would be something00:21:00
like aiming after good and then trying00:21:02
to integrate yourself around that and00:21:04
that the the good at which you aimed00:21:08
would be something approximating what00:21:10
you would be like if you manifested your00:21:13
full potential and that you have a00:21:15
glimmering of what that full potential00:21:18
was so that would be the potential00:21:19
future you and he thought of that he00:21:21
thought of people as four dimensional00:21:23
entities especially essentially that00:21:25
were stretched across time and that you00:21:28
as a totality across time including your00:21:30
potential manifested yourself also in00:21:32
the here and now and that part of what00:21:35
your potential manifested itself was00:21:37
something like the voice of conscious00:21:39
conscience or intuition00:21:41
it's amazing idea it's an amazing idea00:21:43
right because it's like what you could00:21:45
be in the future beckons to you in the00:21:47
present and helps you determine the00:21:49
difference between good and evil00:21:50
it's a mind-boggling idea and you know I00:21:53
think that it's an idea you have to00:21:56
contend with and then he went further00:21:59
than that and this is this is also00:22:01
remarkable idea you know he was00:22:04
interested in this symbolic00:22:05
representation of Christ and I mean00:22:08
psychologically speaking and he thought00:22:10
of Christ as the representation of the00:22:13
ideal potential human it's something00:22:16
like that so it was a symbolic rip thats00:22:19
what Christ was is a symbolic00:22:21
representation of the ideal potential of00:22:23
a human being and so for young there was00:22:25
no difference between there was no00:22:27
psychological difference between who you00:22:29
could be in the future beckoning to you00:22:32
and the prey in the present and00:22:34
orienting yourself in relationship to00:22:36
Christ00:22:37
psychologically those were the same00:22:38
thing and then so that's a pretty00:22:42
mind-boggling idea like seriously that's00:22:44
a mind-boggling idea you know especially00:22:47
when you add the psychological idea that00:22:49
the one of the things that characterizes00:22:51
your ideal future self is the ability to00:22:53
make sacrifices right and the deeper the00:22:56
sacrifice the better and then also to00:22:58
recover from the sacrifice right so00:23:00
that's the death and rebirth so the part00:23:02
of you that's most essential to your00:23:04
full flowering as a as a being is your00:23:08
ability to let things go and then spring00:23:11
back from that so to die in some sense00:23:13
and to be reborn in the service of a00:23:15
higher good and then well then the next00:23:18
part of that is that the direction of00:23:21
the world depends on you doing that so00:23:24
not only your own life but your family's00:23:26
life and and because we're networked so00:23:28
intently together you know that the00:23:30
whole panoply of humankind that may be00:23:33
the structure of the of the cosmos and00:23:35
you know you might think well no but you00:23:38
know it's not so simple it's not so00:23:40
simple first of all one person can wreak00:23:44
an awful lot of havoc there's absolutely00:23:46
no doubt about that and as we get more00:23:47
technologically powerful that becomes00:23:49
even more relevant and important and and00:23:52
and crucial you know one of the things00:23:54
that Young said was that we had to wake00:23:55
up because we are too technologically00:23:58
powerful to be as morally asleep as we00:24:00
are and that seems to me just to be00:24:03
self-evident that's yeah for sure that's00:24:05
true we're we're we're half asleep with00:24:08
nuclear bombs it's not a good idea it's00:24:10
seriously not a good idea and so00:24:16
well and then you might ask yourself -00:24:18
you don't well like what is the ultimate00:24:21
potential of a fully developed human00:24:24
being and well we certainly know that00:24:27
you have admiration for people who are00:24:29
more developed rather than less00:24:30
developed that's that just happens00:24:33
automatic or resentment that but that's00:24:35
okay it's the same thing it doesn't00:24:37
matter but it's not like you can't00:24:39
identify them you can identify them you00:24:41
know and and they're put forward to you00:24:42
in in in drama and fiction and all of00:24:45
that constantly so that's another form00:24:47
of moral intuition you know you can00:24:49
write you can discern the wheat from the00:24:50
chaff let's say and and so the other00:25:01
thing that I was thinking about that's00:25:03
worth consideration too is that you know00:25:06
and maybe this is maybe this is petty00:25:09
but I don't think it is somebody asked00:25:13
me the other day if I believed in00:25:14
miracles and I hate being asked00:25:17
questions like that you know and you00:25:20
know it's also people ask me do I00:25:22
believe in God and like I don't know00:25:24
what they mean when they say that and so00:25:26
I don't know what the answer because I00:25:27
don't think we're talking necessarily00:25:28
going to talk about the same thing but00:25:30
in any case I said yes and I have a00:25:32
variety of reasons for that but one of00:25:34
them is that you know the consensus00:25:39
among physicists is that we can track00:25:43
the origin of the cosmos to something00:25:45
like a hundred millionth of a millionth00:25:47
of a second after the Big Bang it's like00:25:49
it's so close to the Big Bang that the00:25:53
difference is literally infinitesimal00:25:55
but the consensus is that before that00:25:58
whatever that is the laws of physics00:26:00
themselves break down well what what do00:26:05
you call an event that exists outside00:26:08
the laws of physics that by definition00:26:11
that's a miracle now that doesn't00:26:13
necessarily mean that there's a00:26:14
transcendent Adi00:26:16
that caused the event that's a separate00:26:18
issue but it does imply a barrier of00:26:22
some sort beyond which we can't go where00:26:26
some other set of rules apply00:26:27
and so I find that interesting as well00:26:31
so all right so Sarah dies and Abraham00:26:45
makes a bargain with the Hittites to00:26:50
purchase a burial place for her and they00:26:52
offer it as a gift and he insists upon00:26:54
paying for it it's a little story that00:26:56
basically indicates two things that00:26:58
Abraham was the kind of guy that you00:27:01
trust pretty much when you see him and00:27:03
that even if something is offered to him00:27:06
as a gift he's going to do everything to00:27:07
be reciprocal about it and and so it's00:27:11
not a massively important part of the00:27:14
story but it's it's in keeping with the00:27:16
same narrative flow and so Efron who's a00:27:20
hit I'd offer Zabar you'll place as a00:27:22
gift and Abraham says no you know you00:27:24
have to let me pay for it and Efrain00:27:26
says he will and that works out very00:27:29
well and so he has a good burial place00:27:31
for his wife and then Abraham decides00:27:36
that Isaac needs a wife and so he sends00:27:41
his eldest servant to Mesopotamia to00:27:47
find a wife for Isaac and there's a00:27:50
strange ritual that's performed so it00:27:53
says in the story that the servant00:27:55
places his hand under Abraham's thigh to00:27:58
to swear but that isn't really what it00:28:01
means it means that he places his hand I00:28:04
don't know exactly how to say this00:28:06
properly well use your imagination how00:28:09
about that and the idea is that as far00:28:13
as I can tell that he's swearing on the00:28:15
future he's swearing on future people00:28:17
it's something like that so that's00:28:19
that's sort of what testified means00:28:20
right think about the route well I'm not00:28:23
kidding I'm not kidding that is what it00:28:26
that's that is the derivation right it00:28:28
is the derivation so so so anyways this00:28:32
is a serious issue and so that servant00:28:34
has to go and find Isaac a good wife and00:28:36
he wants him to find Isaac wife who00:28:40
is willing to accept the same00:28:43
fundamental belief system which is00:28:44
something like the belief in a god00:28:47
that's a unity rather than a plurality00:28:48
you know the other thing that Jung was00:28:51
very insistent upon was that there was a00:28:54
relationship between polytheism and00:28:59
psychological confusion and monotheism00:29:02
and psychological unification I really00:29:04
like that idea too that you know that00:29:07
what you're trying to do because you are00:29:09
a plurality that that's one of the00:29:11
things the psychoanalysts we're really00:29:12
good at figuring out that the cognitive00:29:13
scientists haven't touched yet as far as00:29:16
I could tell they're way behind the00:29:18
psychoanalysts in that element of00:29:19
thinking is that you are composed of sub00:29:21
personalities which all have their own00:29:24
desires and their own viewpoint their00:29:26
own thoughts and their own perceptions00:29:27
and they're in a war with each other00:29:30
constantly00:29:31
maybe even a Darwinian war it's been00:29:34
it's been portrayed that way by certain00:29:37
neuroscientists and that that one of the00:29:40
goals of life is to integrate all of00:29:43
that plurality into a hierarchical00:29:45
ethical structure that has some00:29:47
canonical ethic at the pinnacle right00:29:51
we've talked a little bit about that and00:29:53
it's not obvious what should be at the00:29:55
pinnacle but we can guess at it it's00:29:58
it's that which we admire that's one way00:30:00
of thinking about it it's that that00:30:02
describes fair play across a sequence of00:30:05
games that's another good way of00:30:07
thinking about it it's it's the heroic00:30:09
ideal that's another way of thinking00:30:11
about it but it's it's combined with00:30:12
generosity you know because the hero the00:30:15
mythological hero goes out into the00:30:16
unknown and slays the dragon and gets00:30:18
the gold but then comes back to the00:30:21
community and distributes what's found00:30:22
and so it's courage plus generosity and00:30:26
and so all of your all of that interior00:30:29
struggling that you're doing is an00:30:31
attempt to bang yourself against the00:30:35
world with challenge constantly to hit00:30:38
everything together like you're beating00:30:40
on a piece of iron to to to cure it00:30:43
let's say so that you don't you're not00:30:46
an internal contradiction you're not00:30:48
massive competing gods something like00:30:50
that because it's just too00:30:52
psychologically stressful and00:30:54
hard on everyone else and impossible for00:30:56
them to get along with you if you're one00:30:58
thing one moment and another thing00:30:59
another moment and so so anyways Abraham00:31:04
insists that Isaac find a wife from00:31:06
among people who are likely to carry off00:31:09
forward the monotheistic tradition and00:31:11
I'm not sure that the monotheistic00:31:13
tradition is actually indistinguishable00:31:14
is actually distinguishable from the00:31:17
individualistic tradition I think they00:31:19
might be the same thing at different00:31:21
levels of analysis you know so because00:31:25
individual means undivided in some sense00:31:28
right to be an individual means to be00:31:30
one thing and the other thing that00:31:33
mitigates against the idea of life as00:31:35
happiness is it isn't obvious to me that00:31:37
it's happiness that is what molds you00:31:40
and shapes you you know it's something00:31:42
more like optimal challenge voluntarily00:31:44
undertaken it's something like that00:31:46
right and I think that's echoed in the00:31:47
idea that everyone has a moral00:31:49
obligation to raise their cross00:31:51
something like that to accept the fact00:31:54
of their mortality voluntarily I believe00:31:57
that that's the case and I do actually00:31:59
think that that's a prerequisite to00:32:01
proper psychological development because00:32:03
if you're not willing to take your00:32:06
mortality on voluntarily like if you're00:32:08
kicking and fighting about it constantly00:32:10
and you have every reason to don't get00:32:12
me wrong then you can't act forthrightly00:32:15
in the world right you're going to be00:32:17
afraid and when you're afraid then you00:32:19
can't voluntarily take on a challenge00:32:22
and then if you can't take voluntarily00:32:24
take on a challenge then you can't00:32:25
develop and so again the life seems to00:32:27
be something like if it's a proper life00:32:30
is the voluntarily voluntary taking on00:32:33
of great challenges and maybe that's00:32:36
better than happiness like it's00:32:38
certainly more noble you know it's not a00:32:40
word we use very much anymore the idea00:32:42
of nobility because we're so obsessed00:32:44
with happiness but I think happiness is00:32:46
a like if it comes along man great you00:32:49
know wonderful don't don't take it00:32:52
lightly or for granted because it's00:32:54
fleeting but the idea that that's what00:32:57
you should be for in some sense - seems00:33:00
to me if that's what life is for then00:33:02
maybe it shouldn't be maybe that's00:33:04
correct because that isn't what life is00:33:06
but00:33:08
so doesn't it isn't obvious to me that00:33:09
that's what life should be you know I00:33:11
mean if you really loved someone like00:33:14
like your son let's say what do you say00:33:17
well I hope he has a happy life or would00:33:19
you say I hope he accomplishes great00:33:21
things it seems to me that that's better00:33:24
the accomplishing of great things and00:33:27
because that's admirable you know it's00:33:30
like a happy person is a happy person00:33:32
but a noble person is an admirable00:33:34
person and and that's that's better man00:33:37
and so maybe there are better things00:33:39
than happiness and so you can't judge00:33:42
being on the basis of the ratio of00:33:45
suffering to pleasure something like00:33:46
that it's and I don't think we do that I00:33:49
don't believe we do that I mean00:33:51
comedians are happy right but everyone00:33:52
doesn't aspire to be a comedian and you00:33:54
don't watch comedy all the time even00:33:56
though you could laugh non-stop more or00:33:58
less if the comedian's funny you want to00:34:00
get your teeth into something it also00:34:02
seems to me that this is one of the00:34:04
reasons I like the existential00:34:05
philosophy was that you know the00:34:08
existentialist believed it's sort of an00:34:10
original sin idea they believed that we00:34:12
came into the world with an ethical00:34:13
burden already laden upon us something00:34:16
like something like that and that we had00:34:17
a felt sense that it was necessary for00:34:19
us to justify our being and if we didn't00:34:22
do that then we weren't authentic to00:34:24
ourselves we weren't moving towards00:34:26
individuality00:34:27
we weren't sustaining the community we00:34:29
weren't living properly and that and00:34:30
that that idea was deeply embedded in00:34:33
people as part of their ordinary00:34:35
experience and that also seems to me to00:34:37
be accurate and you know I've dealt with00:34:40
lots of people say in my clinical00:34:42
practice and they don't really cut they00:34:46
are they will come and say I wish I00:34:47
wasn't so unhappy but they don't usually00:34:50
come and say I wish I was happier and00:34:53
those things aren't the same and and00:34:54
then when we when you talk to people who00:34:57
are having trouble you know they want to00:34:59
straighten things out and figure out how00:35:01
to do them right it's something like00:35:02
that and and that that's the primary00:35:05
that's their primary goal and00:35:16
so anyways Abraham sends his eldest00:35:21
servant off to his the place that God00:35:23
has granted him to find a wife and00:35:26
interestingly the borders of the00:35:29
promised land are quite similar to the00:35:31
current borders of Israel in these are00:35:34
estimates right based on on the biblical00:35:36
and I mean that's not a fluke obviously00:35:38
but it's it's interesting to see the00:35:41
concordance between these ancient00:35:44
stories and the present-day world so I00:35:47
thought that was very interesting and it00:35:49
shows once again that the past you think00:35:52
the past is the past but it's not it's00:35:54
it's still here it's embedded in the00:35:56
present you know just like the future00:35:58
and somehow in some ways is folded up00:36:00
inside the present waiting to unfold the00:36:02
past is all folded up inside the present00:36:04
too so anyways the servant goes to the00:36:21
land that he's been charged to go to and00:36:24
and he's trying to figure out how in the00:36:26
world am I going to find a good wife for00:36:28
Isaac I mean I don't know any of these00:36:30
people and so he has this little00:36:31
dialogue that's presented in the form of00:36:33
a prayer I suppose and he thinks well00:36:37
I'm gonna go to the place where you00:36:39
water where people get water and water00:36:41
the animals and because that's a place00:36:44
where everyone gathers so that's a good00:36:46
place to find someone and and it's it's00:36:48
not a place of fun and lightness and00:36:50
relaxation and impulsivity it's a place00:36:52
of life-sustaining work and and he00:36:56
thinks something like well what would a00:36:58
decent girl do at a watering place and00:37:02
he thought well maybe she would offer a00:37:05
stranger some water and also offer to00:37:09
water the camels because that would be00:37:12
brave to approach the stranger and then00:37:15
generous and then indicative of the00:37:18
willingness to make an effort and when00:37:20
you know that a camel I think he took00:37:23
ten camels was quite a few camels00:37:25
anyways00:37:26
just one and that a camel can drink 2000:37:29
gallons of water and Rebecca who was00:37:33
drawing water from the wet turns out to00:37:34
be Rebecca I was drawing water from the00:37:36
well which is hard right because water00:37:38
is heavy and you have to lift it up and00:37:40
it's ten camels and so that's like 20000:37:43
gallons of waters so you know she has to00:37:45
put herself out a fair a bit in order to00:37:47
make this stranger happy and so that's00:37:50
what happens and then the servant has00:37:55
brought along gifts and that sort of00:37:57
thing and anyways to make a long story00:37:59
short Rebecca00:38:02
agrees to come back to come back with00:38:05
the servant and huh marry Isaac and so00:38:11
then she has she gets pregnant and she00:38:14
has twins and this is an interesting00:38:16
thing the twins fight inside her she can00:38:19
tell that that they're not getting along00:38:21
and this is an echo right it's an echo00:38:23
of Cain and Abel and there's a00:38:26
mythological motif that the unions have00:38:28
called the hostile brothers the hostile00:38:30
brothers and you see them all the time00:38:32
Batman and the Joker are hostile00:38:33
brothers and Thor and Loki or hostile00:38:35
brothers and it's an unbelievably common00:38:38
motif and you know the ultimate hostile00:38:41
brothers are Christ and Satan so that's00:38:43
the that's the archetypal representation00:38:46
of the hostile brothers right the00:38:48
ultimate good and the ultimate evil and00:38:49
so and so it's an echo of the cain and00:38:52
abel story although it's a little more00:38:55
complex I would say from a literary00:38:57
point of view because it isn't obvious00:39:00
which of these brothers is Cain and00:39:02
which of them is Abel they have parts of00:39:04
both in each of them so Esau who turns00:39:08
out to be one of the brothers in Jacob00:39:10
movie turns out to be the other both00:39:11
have their admirable qualities and their00:39:14
faults anyways Esau comes is born first00:39:18
but Jacob has him by the heel and so00:39:22
there was a fight within the womb to see00:39:25
who would emerge first now that's00:39:28
relevant because the firstborn had a00:39:30
special status well has a special status00:39:32
in many communities especially00:39:34
agricultural communities and there's a00:39:36
reason all these people were more herds00:39:38
people but if you divide your00:39:40
property equally among all your children00:39:42
then in like three generations everybody00:39:43
has one goat and everybody starves to00:39:45
death you know or the same thing happens00:39:48
with lands so one of the ways that that00:39:50
traditional communities solve that is00:39:52
they just give them almost everything to00:39:54
the firstborn and then the everyone else00:39:56
knows well you go out and do whatever00:39:58
you can and it's kind of arbitrary and00:39:59
unfair but you know at least it's00:40:01
predictably arbitrary and unfair00:40:03
instead of doom over for generations you00:40:07
know so it actually mattered to be the00:40:09
firstborn and and God generally favors00:40:11
the firstborn and then you might think00:40:14
well what is it about being born first00:40:16
that's so relevant apart from the the00:40:19
cultural practice of abort generous00:40:22
inheritance and I would say well the00:40:23
firstborn is something like the model00:40:25
for the leader of the family right00:40:27
because the firstborn child should be if00:40:29
there's a number of siblings they should00:40:32
take care of the siblings at least to00:40:34
some degree but also should be a role00:40:35
model for them so it's like a natural00:40:37
position of leadership but there's a00:40:39
site there's a cycle psychologize ation00:40:42
of the idea of the firstborn in these00:40:43
stories because god often passes over00:40:46
the firstborn in favor of a later born00:40:48
child he seems to do that on the basis00:40:52
of moral character essentially and so00:40:54
there's this idea that well there's a00:40:56
natural proclivity towards leadership00:40:59
that's just a biological fact that would00:41:01
be associated with being a firstborn but00:41:04
there's a element of characterological00:41:05
development that transcends that and so00:41:08
that you it's more important to be00:41:10
spiritually a firstborn let's say than00:41:12
to be biologically a firstborn and God00:41:14
recognizes that continually in these00:41:17
stories and inverts the natural order00:41:19
and favors a later born who's who's done00:41:22
more work with regards to00:41:24
characterological development and that's00:41:26
also interesting to you know I've talked00:41:28
to lots of business people about00:41:29
leadership and there's a literature on00:41:31
leadership but it's not a good00:41:33
literature it's it's pretty shallow00:41:35
partly because it's not that easy to00:41:37
define leadership and partly because00:41:39
there are different you know you people00:41:42
have different temperaments00:41:43
and different temperaments can be00:41:45
leaders they just do it in different00:41:46
ways00:41:47
now there's something in common about00:41:48
being a leader though and I would say00:41:50
one is that if you're an actual leader00:41:52
you actually know where you're going00:41:54
right because what are you gonna do lead00:41:56
people in circles it's like maybe00:41:57
they'll follow you but you're not a00:41:58
leader you're just a charlatan so you00:42:00
have to know where you're going and then00:42:02
you have to be able to communicate that00:42:03
and then people have to trust you so you00:42:06
actually have to be honest because00:42:07
people are at that stupid at least not00:42:09
for a long period of time and then where00:42:12
you're going has to have some value00:42:14
because otherwise why would anyone want00:42:16
to go along with you so and then you00:42:19
might say well what what are the00:42:20
attributes then that make you a leader00:42:22
and I would say well they're characterological fundamentally and this00:42:25
is not naive optimism or or or casual00:42:30
moralizing it has nothing to do with00:42:31
that you know we know for example that00:42:35
conscientiousness that the personality00:42:37
trait is a good predictor of long-term00:42:39
success in in most occupations not all00:42:42
but most and that one of the things00:42:44
that's associated with conscientiousness00:42:45
is that people keep their word they're00:42:47
trustworthy and that's certainly one00:42:49
element of a leader especially across00:42:51
any reasonable amount of time you have00:42:53
to be able to trust the person they can00:42:54
even be harsh right it doesn't matter00:42:56
because you can see harsh leaders and00:42:57
kind leaders but as long as they do what00:43:00
they say they will do then then you can00:43:02
follow them and you know that the future00:43:04
payoff is is is secure something like00:43:08
that so the idea that character logical00:43:11
development is more important to00:43:12
leadership than primogenitor I think00:43:15
that's the right word primal Genesis00:43:18
anyways being a firstborn that's a very00:43:21
crucial psychological realization that00:43:24
it's character logical development that00:43:25
makes you favored of God you know and I00:43:28
do think we've forgotten this in many00:43:30
ways because there isn't a lot of00:43:32
emphasis in our education system on00:43:35
characterological development and that's00:43:37
very very surprising to me I think maybe00:43:39
it's partly because in our fractured00:43:41
society we can't agree on what00:43:43
constitutes a reasonable00:43:44
characterological goal so we just throw00:43:48
up our hands and don't educate our kids00:43:50
to any degree at all especially in00:43:53
schools about what an admirable person00:43:55
is like or even let them know that well00:43:57
maybe you should actually try to be one00:43:59
you know that that's actually the most00:44:01
important possible thing that you could00:44:03
learn right00:44:04
[Applause]00:44:09
so and I also think and I think this is00:44:12
laid out very thoroughly in the biblical00:44:15
stories as well is that if there are00:44:17
enough people who are admirable then00:44:20
things work and if there aren't and00:44:22
things things are terrible00:44:25
you get wiped out you remember when00:44:28
Abraham is bargaining with God with00:44:31
regards to Sodom and Gomorrah he asks00:44:34
God to save the city if there's like 4000:44:36
admirable people right respectable but00:44:39
let's say admirable right I don't want I00:44:41
don't want to say good because good is00:44:43
being corrupted in some sense by casual00:44:45
usage I mean admirable noble people00:44:48
right I think Abraham bargains got down00:44:52
to like ten if there's ten of them in00:44:53
the city the city won't be destroyed and00:44:55
that that's not very many in this city00:44:57
so there's an interesting idea there00:44:59
which is that there there doesn't have00:45:01
to be that many people in a group who00:45:03
have their act together but zero is the00:45:05
wrong number and if it's zero then then00:45:08
we're seriously in trouble00:45:11
and I think that goes along with the00:45:14
idea of the Pareto principle in00:45:15
economics too which is that it's a small00:45:17
minority of people who do most of the00:45:19
productive work in any given domain but00:45:21
so so a small number of properly00:45:25
behaving people might have enough of an00:45:26
impact to keep everything moving and00:45:28
that might also that might actually be00:45:30
true but it can't fall below some00:45:32
crucial level and I do think that we're00:45:34
in some danger of allowing it to fall00:45:36
below some crucial level because our00:45:38
society seems to be at war in some ways00:45:40
against the idea of the individual and00:45:43
individual character per se and I think00:45:46
that's absolutely I think that's00:45:50
absolutely catastrophic and that's part00:45:53
of the reason that I'm doing these biblical lectures you know because I00:45:55
think that I've known for a long time00:45:58
that the moral presuppositions of a00:46:01
culture are instantiated in its stories00:46:04
they're not instantiated in its explicit00:46:06
philosophy there might be a layer of00:46:08
explicit philosophy and of course there00:46:10
is in the West and a layer of explicit00:46:12
law but underneath that there are00:46:13
stories and there isn't anything under00:46:16
the stories except maybe behavior you00:46:18
know and00:46:19
that's so implicit it doesn't even00:46:20
actually count it's not a cognitive00:46:23
operation and so this is the story these00:46:26
are the stories that are underneath our00:46:27
culture and so there better be something00:46:30
to them that's what we hope and but more00:46:33
importantly maybe we shouldn't toss them00:46:36
away without knowing what they mean00:46:38
because if we toss them away then we're00:46:41
throwing everything that we depend on00:46:42
away as far as I can tell and we'll we00:46:45
will pay for it we'll pay for it00:46:46
individually because we'll be weak you00:46:48
know because if you're not firm in your00:46:50
convictions then someone else who's firm00:46:53
in their convictions can you're their00:46:54
puppet like instantly and then you're00:46:56
also the puppet of your own doubts right00:46:58
because unless you have convictions00:47:00
you're gonna generate doubts like mad00:47:02
because everyone does and then the00:47:04
doubts win and and you'll be paralyzed00:47:06
because there'll be you know 50% of you00:47:09
moving forward and 50% of you frozen00:47:11
stiff and that'll be enough just to00:47:13
lodge you in place and so okay so00:47:20
there's a psychologize ation of the idea00:47:21
of leadership which is very important00:47:23
and then it's associated with the idea00:47:24
of character or logical development and00:47:26
it's associated with the idea of00:47:27
struggle not happiness and it's also00:47:30
associated with this Abrahamic idea00:47:32
which I really liked and which was00:47:34
something that's been very useful to me00:47:35
as a consequence of doing these lectures00:47:38
because remember at the beginning of the00:47:40
Abrahamic stories abraham's like a00:47:42
stay-at-home guy right he's like the guy00:47:44
who's 40 years old living in his in his00:47:45
in his mother's basement and god says00:47:48
like get the hell out of there you know00:47:49
get out in the world where you belong go00:47:51
do something difficult because what00:47:54
you're doing isn't acceptable and you00:47:56
know the first thing he does is go00:47:57
somewhere there's a terrible famine and00:47:59
then he goes somewhere there's a tyranny00:48:00
so you know it's it's pretty funny he00:48:03
follows God's call and it's not like00:48:05
sweetness and light and paradise00:48:07
immediately it's nothing like that it's00:48:09
it's instantaneous combat you know of00:48:12
the most difficult kind so but but00:48:16
Abraham does in fact follow that impulse00:48:19
and you know it's interesting too I mean00:48:22
I don't know here's another thing that00:48:24
made me a really an advocate of00:48:26
psychoanalytic thinking and it was the00:48:29
sort of thing that started to terrify me00:48:31
about what the human psyche was out00:48:32
like I started to understand that not00:48:34
only were we like an amalgam of00:48:37
relatively autonomous subpersonalities00:48:40
each of which had the possibility of00:48:42
gaining control but that we were also00:48:46
victim you might say or beneficiary of00:48:50
impulses that were beyond our conscious00:48:53
formulation or or or understanding or00:48:56
capacity to resist so here's this here's00:48:59
a funny story so I was talking to one of00:49:02
my patreon people online this week and00:49:04
he said he was a committed atheist and00:49:07
that's fine you know lots of atheists00:49:09
are very honest people and they're00:49:10
atheists because they don't know how to00:49:13
reconcile what they know with00:49:16
traditional claims let's say and they're00:49:18
not willing to just mangle them together00:49:20
you know and there might be cynicism all00:49:22
that associated with it as well but he00:49:24
said he was he said he was entranced by00:49:26
these biblical lectures you know which00:49:28
is pretty weird and he said if someone00:49:30
would have told him a year ago that he00:49:32
was going to like be obsessed with the00:49:34
sequence of biblical lectures he would00:49:35
have told them that they were mad and so00:49:38
we had a bit of a discussion about that00:49:39
and because this is an interesting thing00:49:41
you know and he mentioned this he said00:49:44
it was something like you don't choose00:49:46
your interests they choose you and00:49:48
that's really worth thinking about to00:49:50
man because you know it's really hard to00:49:52
get interested in something you're not00:49:54
interested in even if you know there's a00:49:55
good reason for it you know you're00:49:57
studying for an exam you find the00:49:58
material boring you know anything will00:50:01
be more interesting than than the00:50:03
studying even though you know that00:50:05
that's what you need to do you can't00:50:06
voluntarily grab yourself by the scruff00:50:09
of the neck let's say and shake yourself00:50:11
and say sit down and concentrate your00:50:13
mind will just go everywhere but then if00:50:15
you're interested in something and even00:50:17
if it's something you shouldn't be00:50:18
interested in because that happens all00:50:20
the time then it's like you're a laser focus man00:50:22
you can pay attention forever you can00:50:24
work until you're exhausted you won't00:50:26
even notice it then you remember00:50:27
everything it's like okay if you can't00:50:30
control your interest00:50:31
what does and man I tell you you can00:50:35
think about that for a very long time so00:50:37
Jung talked about the spirit mercurius00:50:40
you know Mercury's the winged messenger00:50:42
of the gods and and here's how he00:50:44
conceptualized it psychologically he00:50:46
thought is what the ancient people who thought00:50:49
about mercury has the winged messenger00:50:51
of the gods were trying to state00:50:52
psychologically you know your your00:50:54
interest Flitz around it's like there's00:50:56
something that captures it and that00:50:58
moves your interest from place to place00:50:59
you know like if you walk into a00:51:01
bookstore you'll get interested in a00:51:02
particular book it's as if the book00:51:04
grips you is you don't know why you're00:51:06
interested in that you might but often00:51:08
you don't know why you're interested in00:51:09
that book and you know your interest is00:51:11
flitting around and so that's mercury00:51:13
the thing that makes your interests like00:51:15
flicker around is mercury the winged00:51:16
messenger of the gods and mercury is the00:51:20
messenger of the gods because it's the00:51:21
things behind the scenes psychologically00:51:23
that are manipulating your attention and00:51:25
for Jung those were equivalent in some00:51:27
sense to the lost gods and so for Jung00:51:30
your your interest was being manipulated00:51:33
behind the scenes by unseen forces that00:51:36
were associated with your character00:51:37
illogical development across time that00:51:39
was the manifestation of the self so the00:51:42
self is this the the potential you let's00:51:45
say and the way it operates in the00:51:47
present is by gripping your interest in00:51:49
directing it somewhere and that's part00:51:51
of the instinct of self-realization00:51:53
it's a mind-boggling idea man really00:51:55
it's I think it's correct I can't see00:51:58
how it can't be correct it doesn't mean00:52:00
I understand it completely but it00:52:01
certainly seems phenomenologically00:52:03
correct and I mean the potential that00:52:06
you are has to manifest itself somehow00:52:08
in in the here and now it has to and00:52:11
what better way than by directing your00:52:13
attention you know it's like it seems00:52:15
like this might be useful for you or00:52:17
maybe you get attracted to this person00:52:18
or maybe you admire this person that00:52:20
happens with kids a lot they'll admire00:52:22
someone and then copy them and you can00:52:23
see that that's obviously part of their00:52:25
developmental progression right it's a00:52:28
form of hero worship but kids are very00:52:29
imitative and they hero worship at the00:52:31
drop of a hat and so they're they're00:52:34
entranced by the the next stage of00:52:37
development and if they see someone who00:52:39
embodies that especially if it's in the00:52:41
zone of proximal development it's it's00:52:43
um it's something they could achieve00:52:44
stretching a bit they find someone who00:52:47
embodies that next stage of development00:52:49
and then they start to imitate them and00:52:51
act like them00:52:52
well we're adults are no different we're00:52:54
no different we're just we do it at a00:52:56
perhaps more abstract and sophisticated00:52:58
level so okay00:53:00
so Jacob and Esau are hostile brothers00:53:05
there they're like Cain and Abel except00:53:07
the mixture of Cain and Abel and they're00:53:08
very different Esau was red and covered00:53:12
with hair he was a hunter and a man of00:53:13
the field so he's like your basic jock00:53:15
right he's extroverted he's outgoing00:53:17
he's really tough he's like00:53:18
extraordinarily masculine he hunts and00:53:21
he's a real favorite of his father and00:53:23
so and and Jacob isn't he's a dweller in00:53:27
tents and yeah right exactly exactly00:53:31
exactly right and it says Isaac loved00:53:34
Esau but Rebekah loved Jacob now that's00:53:37
a problem right that that's a big00:53:38
problem and that there's a Freudian00:53:40
element to this it's like this family is00:53:42
now divided because one child is the00:53:44
favorite of the mother and that's Jacob00:53:46
and one child is the favorite of the00:53:48
father and so Jacob is kind of a00:53:50
mother's boy I guess to use an rather00:53:53
archaic phrase and certainly not as00:53:56
admirable from his father's perspective00:53:58
as Esau who's a tough guy who goes out00:54:01
with a bow and arrow and like you know00:54:02
wanders around in the plains and brings00:54:04
animals home and and he's tough he's a00:54:07
tough guy so and but but there's this00:54:11
discord in the family because one parent00:54:14
prefers one child and the other parent00:54:15
prefers the other and it's obvious from00:54:18
the story that the parents do not00:54:19
communicate about this because they00:54:21
really take sides and so there's a split00:54:23
in the family and that's I think very00:54:25
realistic because one of the things that00:54:28
you do learn if you have a family and of00:54:29
course most of you do but if you also00:54:31
think about families is that there's00:54:33
there's deep divisions within families00:54:36
very very frequently that no one will00:54:37
ever talk about and or even think about00:54:41
often because it's too painful to think00:54:42
about you know and Freud himself said00:54:45
Freud was clearly his mother's favorite00:54:46
and the family sacrificed a lot00:54:49
including some of the potential00:54:51
ambitions of the other children in order00:54:52
to kind of put Sigmund Freud up on a00:54:54
pedestal and and advance his education00:54:57
and it worked I mean you know he turned00:54:59
into a great man but there was a cost to00:55:01
his siblings and Freud himself said that00:55:03
there was something about being the00:55:05
favorite of the mother that gave a00:55:07
person additional confidence throughout00:55:10
their life and you know there's there's00:55:13
something to be said about that even00:55:15
someone like Eric Erickson you know he00:55:16
noted that very interested in child00:55:18
development that that first bonding with00:55:20
the mother was the it was the place00:55:22
where trust was established maybe trust00:55:25
even in the goodness of existence was00:55:26
established and so anyways Jacob is00:55:29
Rachel's favorite and he saw his Isaac's00:55:34
favorite now he saw being extroverted00:55:42
let's say is also a bit impulsive and00:55:44
maybe he's not he's a man of action he's00:55:47
not a forward thinker and but he's also00:55:50
doing hard work and so you know he goes00:55:52
out and he's hunting and he's worn out00:55:53
and he comes home and he's faint with00:55:56
hunger and Jacob is at home cooking00:56:00
he's boiling up lentils red lentils and00:56:02
you know Esau comes in from the hunt and00:56:05
he's like half starved to death and he's00:56:07
sitting there in the aroma of these red00:56:10
lentils reaches them and he's exhausted00:56:13
and and and he tells Jacob that he wants00:56:18
some of this stew and Jacob who's being00:56:23
a pain in the neck fundamentally they00:56:25
basically says no there's a there's a00:56:27
teasing thing going on here and and we00:56:30
won't give him any and and and there's00:56:33
you have to imagine this because it's00:56:35
not laid out explicitly in the story but00:56:36
there's some dispute about whether Esau00:56:40
gets to have lunch and Jacob finally00:56:43
says well I'll give you some but you00:56:44
have to you have to give me your00:56:46
birthright and he saw you think he must say00:56:50
something like you know well to hell00:56:52
with it take it you know you son of a00:56:55
take it just give me some damn00:56:57
stew it's something like that so that's00:57:00
what happens but you know with these00:57:01
archaic people once he made a statement00:57:03
like that that was you were done that00:57:05
was it and so Esau sells his birthright00:57:10
and this turns out to be incredibly00:57:12
significant Manson who wrote biblical00:57:16
commentary said oh there's a bit of a00:57:19
twist to it so Esau eats the the red00:57:22
lentils and then from then on his name00:57:23
is red and you've got to use your00:57:26
imagine00:57:27
in a bit I mean people are making fun of00:57:29
him right that's why they're calling him00:57:31
red I mean he's already red because we00:57:32
established that but no one was calling00:57:35
him red before this and so for the rest00:57:36
of his life you know every time he goes00:57:39
out amongst his friends and family they00:57:41
call him red and sort of snicker because00:57:43
he's the you know half famished idiot00:57:45
who sold his birthright for a bowl of00:57:47
lentils and so it's it's not it's not00:57:49
that funny actually00:57:51
and so Esau is not happy about this and00:57:54
and it actually turns out that this so00:57:56
what does it mean it means don't sell00:57:57
the future for the desires of the00:57:59
present and don't be casual about what00:58:01
you have and then there's an archetypal00:58:03
element to this too and Benson says00:58:05
various have been the opinions what this00:58:07
birthright was which Esau sold but the00:58:09
most probable is that together with the00:58:12
right of sacrificing so determining what00:58:14
should be sacrificed and when and being00:58:16
the priest of the family it included the00:58:19
peculiar blessing promised to the seed00:58:21
of Abraham that of being the progenitor00:58:24
of the Messiah and the error of the00:58:26
special promises of God respecting00:58:28
Christ's Kingdom it was at least typical00:58:31
of spiritual privileges those of the00:58:33
firstborn that are written in heaven00:58:36
well that's a lot harsher than meets the00:58:42
eye to begin with and so there's a very00:58:44
interesting deep moral story there which00:58:49
is it's sort of Esau does the opposite00:58:53
of a sacrifice it's the reverse right he00:58:55
sacrifices the future for the present00:58:57
and so the story basically says the way00:59:01
it's laid out across stories is that if00:59:03
you're the sort of person that00:59:06
sacrifices the future to the present00:59:08
then that eradicate the possibility that00:59:10
you will bring the the most noble being00:59:14
into existence that's what it means and00:59:16
you can again this is the psychological00:59:19
significance of the biblical story so00:59:21
that's a bad thing to do if you want to00:59:24
realize your potential let's say you00:59:27
don't do reverse sacrifices that's a00:59:29
very bad idea00:59:30
and so Esau really did himself in by00:59:33
being too attached to the present00:59:36
without a vision of the future so he's -00:59:39
in the moment you know00:59:40
and and he pays a heavy price for it I00:59:43
mean he's the first of all he loses his00:59:45
birthright and and his double00:59:47
inheritance so there's a practical00:59:48
consequence and then there's a spiritual00:59:50
consequence and then he's well he's been00:59:53
made a fool of by his brother Jacob00:59:55
means supplanter by the way that's what00:59:58
the name means and Jacob is always01:00:00
trying to usurp Esau as we see and so01:00:03
Jacob gets one over on him and you know01:00:05
that's not doesn't make an older brother01:00:07
happy when a younger brother gets01:00:08
something over on him that's for sure01:00:10
and then he loses the opportunity to be01:00:12
the progenitor of the Messiah which is01:00:14
like people already didn't realize that01:00:16
precisely but it seems to be you know01:00:18
it's kind of rough that so and then01:00:23
there's there's a statement in Matthew01:00:25
16:26 for what is a man profited if he01:00:27
shall gain the whole world and lose his01:00:29
own soul or what shall a man give in01:00:31
exchange for a saw it's an echo of the01:00:33
same idea you know when you think well01:00:35
what is this idea of soul mean and it's01:00:38
not intellect it said it's something01:00:40
like it's something like consciousness01:00:42
allied with character I think and I01:00:45
think the reason that it's valued so01:00:46
much is that because you got to ask01:00:48
yourself well what do you really have01:00:49
when it comes down to it so life is01:00:51
suffering let's say and you know you can01:00:53
you can pile up worldly goods and the01:00:56
God in the Old Testament doesn't seem to01:00:58
have anything against that really right01:00:59
the people who he favors seem to prosper01:01:02
quite nicely in the world but they also01:01:05
have to make a choice between whether01:01:06
they're going to fundamentally sustain01:01:09
their character or whether they're going01:01:10
to prosper in the world when push comes01:01:12
to shove and the idea constantly is that01:01:15
really what you have in the world that01:01:17
allows you the best possible defense01:01:20
against the suffering that's intrinsic01:01:22
to being is your character that's what01:01:24
you have period and I don't think there01:01:27
is anything that's more psychologically01:01:29
true than that you know because01:01:30
everything else well first of all your01:01:33
relationships with others depend on your01:01:35
character and certainly this is part of01:01:37
the story of Noah's Ark you know because01:01:38
his generations were perfect so he had a01:01:40
very tight familial arrangement everyone01:01:45
trusted each other that's a big deal if01:01:47
you hit a rocky patch in your life right01:01:48
and it's character that it's character01:01:51
that determines that you know if you're01:01:53
generous and honor01:01:54
and all of those things and people know01:01:55
they can rely on you assuming they're01:01:57
not resentful that's a whole different01:01:58
story then they're gonna come to your01:02:01
aid when when it's necessary they're01:02:03
gonna pull together with you and you01:02:05
know when people are really after you01:02:06
for one reason or another and they're01:02:08
accusing you of all sorts of things and01:02:10
you're guilty because you you have a01:02:12
past it's laden with characterological01:02:14
errors then it's very easy for people to01:02:16
take you down because they'll poke until01:02:19
they hit a place where you're guilty and01:02:20
then you're done because you'll do01:02:22
yourself in with your own judgment and01:02:24
so well so ESO makes a very big mistake01:02:28
and there's a sacrificial idea here too01:02:35
which is you know now and then you're01:02:36
going to be faced with a situation where01:02:38
it's something you really want or your01:02:40
character maybe you'll have to lie about01:02:42
something you know and you'll think what01:02:45
difference does it make you know a lie01:02:47
about it Jacob does this but the problem01:02:50
there's a bunch of problems with that01:02:51
one is that well now you know that01:02:53
you're the sort of person that will in01:02:55
fact deceive yourself about the nature01:02:57
of reality if something shiny is dangled01:02:59
in front of you and that's not good01:03:01
because it undermines your faith in01:03:03
yourself and when you're really in01:03:04
trouble they call that the dark night of01:03:06
the soul when you're really in trouble01:03:08
that's what you've got you've got01:03:10
whether or not you can trust yourself01:03:12
and that's it you know when things are01:03:15
really harsh and so if you've betrayed01:03:16
yourself in that manner then you weaken01:03:20
yourself under the worst possible01:03:21
circumstances and that's just that's01:03:23
really not a good thing01:03:24
so this is very practical advice it's01:03:29
not casual moralizing there's very01:03:32
little casual moralizing in these01:03:33
stories in the next part of this story01:03:36
there's some parallels with Abraham and01:03:38
that's built into the narrative I think01:03:40
because Isaac is Abraham's descendants01:03:44
and so we have to keep the narrative01:03:47
echoing forward otherwise it loses its01:03:49
its continuity and there's a famine in01:03:53
the land that Isaac sin and God tells01:03:57
him to stay the course01:03:58
anyways repeating the promise he he gave01:04:00
to Abraham01:04:01
although Isaac goes to AB Emelec also01:04:05
telling the King and people that Rebecca01:04:06
was his sister01:04:07
exactly what Abraham did when he went to01:04:09
Egypt and so there's another echo there01:04:11
of the same the same it's as if the01:04:15
story is being told for a second time01:04:17
essentially and that's supposed to01:04:18
remind you of the of the previous story01:04:20
but they're careless the King sees that01:04:24
Rebekah and Isaac are intimate together01:04:27
and luckily he doesn't have them put to01:04:30
death he just tells everybody in the01:04:32
kingdom that they're to be left the hell01:04:33
alone and then Isaac prospers in that land01:04:37
just like Abraham did in Egypt until the01:04:40
Philistines asked him to leave he's just01:04:41
getting too rich and powerful things are01:04:43
going too well for him so he's asked to01:04:44
he's asked to leave now in the meantime01:04:48
Esau gets married Hannah this is a funny01:04:51
little story he says he marries two01:04:54
women who give grief to Isaac and01:04:56
Rebekah so they who every so marries01:04:59
they're not popular with his with their01:05:01
in-laws not in the least that actually01:05:03
becomes relevant a little later because01:05:05
they drive Rebekah quite mad so I get a01:05:08
kick out of that because that's very01:05:09
common you know it's not easy to01:05:11
integrate new people into your family01:05:14
and and hope that that will go smoothly01:05:16
it's actually one of the real01:05:17
catastrophes in life right you have a01:05:19
kid maybe you get along with them and01:05:21
maybe you don't but let's assume you do01:05:24
but then they marry someone that you01:05:26
just don't like and or maybe you think01:05:29
is wrong for them I mean that's really01:05:30
rough that's what are you gonna do about01:05:32
that you know because you're you're01:05:35
basically screwed both ways if you have01:05:37
the person you love around then you have01:05:38
to put up with this Prentis creature01:05:40
that they allied themselves with and if01:05:42
you if you get rid of them completely01:05:44
well then you know you don't have your01:05:45
child anymore so it's a very very01:05:47
difficult position and so that's another01:05:50
example of the realism I think of the01:05:52
stories now Isaac who's hypothetically01:05:55
on his deathbed asks Esau to hunt for01:05:57
venison because he likes venison and01:05:59
he's happy that his son is a hunter and01:06:01
Rebekah over here is this01:06:02
and so she conspires with Jacob to to01:06:08
slaughter two small goats and make his01:06:11
father some stew because he wants Esau01:06:14
to make him stew out of venison but01:06:16
Rebecca who's being I would say let's01:06:19
say slightly deceitful or01:06:21
probably lying that would be more01:06:23
accurate she conspires with Jacob so01:06:26
Jacob kills two little goats kids and01:06:28
boils up a stew and then he puts on some01:06:31
goat skins because Esau is a hairy01:06:34
character and and Rebecca dresses Isaac01:06:37
in Esau is clothing because Isaac can't01:06:40
see very well at this point and so then01:06:43
Jacob goes into his father with the stew01:06:45
and he's trying to disguise his voice01:06:48
but it doesn't work very well and so01:06:51
Isaac asks him to come close and Jacob01:06:54
puts out his arm with the goat skin on01:06:55
it and and Isaac smells him too and he01:06:58
smells like he's oh and which maybe01:07:01
wasn't the best thing but and feels like01:07:05
him and and so because Isaac thinks he's01:07:08
on his deathbed he decides to deliver a01:07:11
blessing - hypothetically - Esau and so01:07:16
but it's Jacob and so that's a big deal01:07:19
- because the blessing is actually as I01:07:21
said before with these ancient people it01:07:23
appeared as though once you said01:07:25
something you didn't get to take it back01:07:27
you couldn't say well look you've you01:07:29
deceived me so it doesn't count01:07:31
it was like they weren't maybe as as01:07:38
what week might be one way of thinking01:07:40
about it but another way is they weren't01:07:42
quite as attentive to context you know01:07:43
because if I make you a deal and then it01:07:46
turns out that you've betrayed me I may01:07:47
feel that the deal is no longer valid01:07:49
because the assumption was you were01:07:51
being honest to be giveth in that you01:07:53
know violates the whole spirit but that01:07:55
isn't how these people thought they said01:07:57
once he promised man you promised and01:07:58
that was that so Isaac blessed Jacob he01:08:03
says that God give you the dew of heaven01:08:05
and the fatness of the earth and plenty01:08:07
of corn and wine let let people serve01:08:09
you and nations bow down to you be lord01:08:11
over thy brethren that's gonna be rough01:08:13
on e so let thy mother's sons bow down01:08:15
to the cursed be everyone that curseth01:08:17
thee and blessed be he the blesseth thee01:08:20
and so there's a quite a remarkable01:08:23
painting of that so there's Rebekah01:08:25
she's looking pretty old and Isaac's01:08:28
looking pretty blind and Jacobs taking01:08:31
directions from his mother and we might01:08:33
say he's perhaps a little old to be01:08:35
taking moral lessons from his mother especially01:08:37
given how she's acting and so it's a01:08:39
pretty ugly scene altogether especially01:08:41
that we also know that Jacob already01:08:44
tricked Esau out of his birthright and01:08:46
so now he's like taking the birthright01:08:48
and he's taken the blessing and so as I01:08:52
said that Jacob he turns out to be the01:08:55
father of Israel it's like he's a01:08:57
reprehensible character these are01:08:59
major-league betrayals that he's01:09:01
engaging and it's not trivial he really01:09:03
really pulls the rug out from under his01:09:06
brother and you know you could say well01:09:07
Esau is not as awake as he might be you01:09:10
know he's kind of a wild man and fair01:09:12
enough but it certainly seems to me that01:09:14
the the predominant moral error falls on01:09:18
Jacobs shoulders it's very treacherous01:09:20
behavior what he's doing so then he saw01:09:23
shows up and he's got a nice stag for01:09:25
his dad and it's like little late for01:09:29
that and he states that his brother was01:09:32
rightly named Jacob which means01:09:33
supplanter because he's been deceived01:09:35
twice and Isaac says Isaac answered he's01:09:40
asking funny I was asking fundamentally01:09:42
if there's anything at all left over for01:09:44
him and Isaac can't give him the same01:09:47
blessing because that's already been01:09:48
given so he has to think of something01:09:49
else and Isaac says behold I've made him01:09:53
thy Lord and all his brothers I've given01:09:56
to him for servants which includes you01:09:58
and with corn and wine have I sustained01:10:00
him and what shall I now do unto thee my01:10:02
son and Esau said unto his father have01:10:05
you even one blessing for me my father01:10:07
and blessed me also and an e so lifted01:10:10
up his voice and wept and you know we01:10:12
already know that Esau is a pretty tough01:10:13
guy by all appearances and you know he's01:10:16
out there hunting on his own and camping01:10:18
and it's like he's no pushover and the01:10:19
fact that this reduces him to tears is01:10:21
an indication of the magnitude of the01:10:24
betrayal and Isaac says behold thy01:10:27
dwelling shall be the fatness of the01:10:28
earth and of the dew of heaven from01:10:30
above and by thy sword thou shalt live01:10:32
and thou shalt serve your brother and it01:10:34
shall come to pass when you will have01:10:36
the Dominion and you'll break the yoke01:10:37
his yoke off from thy neck and Esau01:10:40
hated Jacob because of the blessing01:10:41
wherewith his father blessed him and01:10:43
Esau said in his heart the days of01:10:46
mourning for my father are at hand then01:10:48
I will slay my01:10:49
Jakub so fundamentally you know if Isaac01:10:53
dies or when he dies then we'll mourn01:10:56
for him and then Jacob better look the01:10:58
hell out because it's like it's it's01:11:00
serious death coming his way and you01:11:04
know he's got a he's got a point he's in01:11:07
in Dante's Inferno I think I mentioned01:11:10
this at one point so Dante's Inferno01:11:12
it's a very interesting story it's a01:11:13
descent into hell01:11:14
and it's it's actually one of the places01:11:17
that we sort of derive the popular01:11:19
conception of Hell was partly based on01:11:21
Dante's on Dante's imagination on his01:11:24
work and what Dante was trying to do was01:11:26
to discover the hierarchical structure01:11:28
of evil and you know you might think01:11:30
there's a hierarchical structure of good01:11:32
some things are better than other things01:11:33
but there's also a hierarchical01:11:35
structure of evil some evils are greater01:11:37
than other evils and he put betrayal in01:11:39
the in the in the lowest part of health01:11:41
right so if you were betraying people01:11:43
you were right besides Satan himself and01:11:46
so and I think that's good that's very01:11:48
smart well Dante was a genius after all01:11:51
and I think the reason for that is that01:11:54
you see if someone trusts you they're01:11:57
laying their vulnerability open to you01:11:59
now they might just be naive let's say01:12:01
and that's we won't think about that01:12:03
because you're just a child if you're01:12:05
naive you can still be betrayed but if01:12:07
you're an adult and you trust it's often01:12:09
because you if you're an actual adult01:12:11
its you willingly open yourself up01:12:14
knowing that you could be hurt right01:12:15
because you're not naive anymore so you01:12:17
decide to trust and you see all open01:12:19
myself up and I know that I'm laying01:12:23
myself open to you if you choose to use01:12:25
that power and then that's a good thing01:12:27
to know you know if you've been hurt as01:12:29
a child or hurt as a naive person you01:12:31
might say well why should I ever trust01:12:32
again which is a really good question01:12:34
and the answer is the reason you trust01:12:36
again once you're an adult is because01:12:38
you're courageous you're courageous01:12:41
it's an act of courage to trust and the01:12:43
reason it's useful is because if you01:12:46
trust someone you open the door to01:12:48
reciprocity and negotiation and01:12:50
cooperation and you entice the best part01:12:54
of the person forward and so it's a it's01:12:56
a courageous act but then if you betray01:12:59
someone then what you've done is you've01:13:02
taken the best part01:13:03
them which is the part that will01:13:04
courageously trust you know with open01:13:07
eyes right and you've stuck a dagger in01:13:09
that and so you've purposefully damaged01:13:12
the best part of them and so that's why01:13:14
it's such a egregious fault and and it's01:13:19
often people don't recover from that01:13:20
sort of playing at you if you betray01:13:22
someone badly enough you can you can01:13:24
damage them like you can give them01:13:26
post-traumatic stress disorder if you01:13:27
really if you really put your mind to it01:13:29
and you know that's not just a01:13:31
psychological disorder if you have01:13:33
post-traumatic stress disorder it01:13:34
produces permanent neurological01:13:36
alterations that make you more neurotic01:13:38
more sensitive to negative emotion01:13:40
really for the rest of your life like01:13:42
you can you can recover from it to some01:13:45
degree but stress will tend to reinstate01:13:49
the PTSD so you you hurt someone and01:13:53
it's not merely cycled not not that01:13:55
psychological is merely but it's not01:13:57
merely psychological right it's it's01:13:59
fundamental physiological damage01:14:01
so anyways Jacobs smart enough to get01:14:05
out of there and which is also not01:14:08
really a testament to his integrity01:14:10
right I mean he's done these terrible01:14:13
things at the behest of his mother01:14:15
because he wants power and and he wants01:14:18
to get it without deserving it and then01:14:20
you know he finally goes too far and he01:14:22
hightailed it out of there to his to01:14:25
another family member to his mother's01:14:27
brother and so it's not exactly the01:14:31
world's most heroic story that's for01:14:34
sure and so now there's an interlude01:14:36
here and this is a really interesting01:14:38
interlude it's the story of Jacob's01:14:41
Ladder so he's off to visit Lebon or lab01:14:44
and who's his his mother's brother and01:14:47
on the way he he has asleep and he01:14:51
lighted upon a certain place and tarried01:14:53
there all night because the Sun was set01:14:55
and he took of the stones of that place01:14:57
and put them for his pillows which seems01:14:59
to indicate very bad planning on on his01:15:01
part and and lay down in that place to01:15:04
sleep and he dreamed and beheld a ladder01:15:07
set up on the earth and the top of it01:15:08
reached to heaven and beheld the angels01:15:10
of God ascending and descending on it01:15:12
and behold the Lord stood above it and01:15:14
said I am the Lord God of Abraham thy01:15:16
far and the guard of Isaac the land were on01:15:19
thou liest to thee I will give it and to01:15:21
thy seed and so this story of Jacob's01:15:26
Ladder has really possessed the01:15:28
imagination of the West and there's a01:15:30
reason for that it's because it's an01:15:31
archetypal story because the idea of a01:15:34
ladder that reaches to heaven is one of01:15:35
the oldest ideas of mankind so you find01:15:38
it widely distributed among the shamanic01:15:40
cultures for example and it's a hallmark01:15:42
of psychedelic experience that's another01:15:44
way of thinking about it which is a very01:15:46
peculiar thing so there's one01:15:48
representation of of the ladder you see01:15:50
god up at the top there peeking out from01:15:53
the clouds now you know that's sort of01:15:56
where we get the idea that God is in in01:15:59
heaven and then heavens up in the sky01:16:01
and and that's an easy story to make fun01:16:04
of because you know we've gone up to the01:16:06
moon and there's no God there and and01:16:08
but but this this is not a reasonable01:16:12
way of conceptualizing what these01:16:15
experiences are about these experiences01:16:18
what this is the opening up there that's01:16:20
more like an opening into an alternate01:16:23
dimension that's a better way of01:16:24
thinking about it's beyond like from01:16:26
from the judeo-christian perspective one01:16:28
of the things you have to understand is01:16:29
that God is beyond space and time he's01:16:31
not in the universe he's outside the01:16:34
universe in some manner and so the idea01:16:37
that that you have an experience of God01:16:38
and it's up isn't the OP is the best01:16:41
that the human imagination can do with01:16:44
what's essentially a form of extra01:16:46
dimensional experience or that's the01:16:48
best way to conceptualize it and these01:16:50
experiences aren't rare you know they01:16:52
they make the they make up the core of01:16:54
of the shamanic tradition and so there's01:16:57
an intrusion of the ancient shamanic01:16:59
tradition which is tens of thousands of01:17:00
years old01:17:01
into the biblical stories at this point01:17:04
now why Jacob had a essentially shamanic01:17:08
experience is very difficult to tell01:17:09
because we don't know what these old01:17:11
people were up to right and we don't01:17:12
know how much of the archaic tradition01:17:15
archaic religious tradition was still01:17:18
extant about at that point in time but01:17:21
we certainly do know that our ancient01:17:22
forebears were using psychedelic01:17:26
substances constantly like Amanita01:17:28
muscaria mushrooms for example which01:17:30
were widely used in India before they became01:17:32
extinct that's the theory anyways that01:17:34
seemed to be the basis of the chemical01:17:36
soma which much has been written about01:17:39
and so we here ever this as a dream that01:17:43
were as a vision and perhaps that's what01:17:45
it was but perhaps that wasn't what it01:17:46
was either and perhaps it was an01:17:49
experience that was induced by or by the01:17:53
same processes that shamanic people have01:17:57
always induced these experiences and so01:17:59
we're gonna go through this a little bit01:18:00
so anyways there's a there's a01:18:02
connection between heaven and earth that01:18:04
opens up that's that's that's the that's01:18:06
the vision and there's messengers moving01:18:09
up and down now one way you can01:18:11
conceptualize that is psychologically as01:18:13
we already discussed that you know there01:18:15
there are forces within you that are01:18:18
active and alive and you can think of01:18:21
them in some sense as messengers of the01:18:23
higher self and so you could think about01:18:25
this as an image of a psychological01:18:27
reality but and so we can stick with01:18:30
that but but here's some of the01:18:35
representations that have been made I01:18:36
really like the one on the right that's01:18:39
William Blake I like the helix idea and01:18:42
I don't think that that's that's fluke01:18:45
there are helixes and double helixes and01:18:47
all sorts of imaging imagery very01:18:49
ancient and very modern that are01:18:51
associated with both healing and with01:18:53
this kind of vision so and you see it in01:18:56
the Blake representation God is01:18:58
associated with well really with the Sun01:19:01
and with light and and you see that on01:19:03
the left as well that wherever God is is01:19:06
where light is and so that's a very01:19:08
interesting idea as far as I'm concerned01:19:09
as well there's some other01:19:11
representations one by Chanel01:19:22
so now there's this idea that there's a01:19:25
there's the possibility of opening up a01:19:27
line of communication between the human01:19:29
psyche and the transcendent divine and01:19:31
there's a there's a great image of01:19:34
Christ as Pam - they're so creator of01:19:36
the world that is one of the first01:19:38
mosaics if I remember correctly and I01:19:40
wish I knew remember where it was but I01:19:42
don't but it's a very interesting image01:19:44
I'm having a carving of it made at the01:19:46
moment by a friend of mine but you see01:19:50
Christ's face portrayed in a medieval01:19:53
manner and he's holding a book so it01:19:56
symbolizes the importance of the book01:19:58
you know as a means of transmitting01:20:00
wisdom and his face is very asymmetrical01:20:03
and that the eyes are different one side01:20:06
and the other and one half of the face01:20:08
represents the human part and the other01:20:10
side of the face represents the divine01:20:12
part and you know I also think about01:20:14
that psychologically because I do think01:20:17
that that's the right way to01:20:19
conceptualize human beings is that01:20:21
there's an aspect of us that's mortal01:20:23
and human and limited but there's an01:20:25
aspect of us that's transcendent and01:20:27
divine as well and it's latent in some01:20:29
sense but there are times when it01:20:31
manifests itself and this is not01:20:33
speculation right this is like the01:20:37
oldest experience of human beings now01:20:39
it's not necessarily an easy experience01:20:41
to have but it's reported everywhere and01:20:44
it can be reliably induced as we've01:20:46
discussed before by chemical means which01:20:48
and I don't know what that means exactly01:20:50
we've talked a little bit about01:20:51
psilocybin mushrooms for example and you01:20:53
could say that the mystical experiences01:20:55
that have been invoked in the newest01:20:57
experiments down it Johns Hopkins are01:21:00
arrangements or forms of psychosis you01:21:03
know because they have some similarity01:21:05
to psycho psychotic experiences although01:21:08
psychotic people were given LSD in the01:21:11
60s and they always said that that was01:21:13
something different than what they were01:21:14
having and if you give psychotic people01:21:16
amphetamines you could make them worse01:21:18
so their bio chemically separate and we01:21:21
know that and but also the thing that's01:21:23
so interesting about the psilocybin01:21:24
experience is is that they reliably01:21:27
produce mystical experiences that the01:21:28
people rate as among the most important01:21:30
experiences of their life and among01:21:33
those who have01:21:34
the psychedelic experience positive01:21:36
things happen to them and so that kind01:21:39
of messes with the whole psychosis01:21:41
theory right because what are you gonna01:21:42
do you got a claim that you give someone01:21:44
a pill and they have a psychotic break01:21:45
and then they're healthier it's like no01:21:47
that isn't how psychotic breaks work01:21:49
you're not healthy or after having one01:21:51
you're like you're a broken egg and it's01:21:54
not easy to put you back together so and01:21:57
we know that people all over the world01:21:59
have discovered every manner of01:22:00
psychedelic substance that you could01:22:02
possibly while you imagine there's lots01:22:04
of hungry people wandering the earth for01:22:06
a long time and they eat every damn01:22:07
thing they could get their hands on and01:22:09
now and then something very peculiar01:22:11
happened as a consequence so so I'm01:22:17
gonna tell you a little bit about the01:22:19
shamanic tradition because it's01:22:22
associated with Jacob's Ladder so01:22:24
according to le a de murcia le odd it01:22:27
was a great historian of religion a01:22:28
comparative Jung's and and and they01:22:31
influenced each other quite01:22:32
substantially le otta believed that01:22:34
shamanism that used psychedelics was a01:22:37
degeneration from the original more pure01:22:40
shamanism but I think later scholarship01:22:42
has demonstrated that that's incorrect01:22:44
that that the shamanic ritual per se was01:22:47
a direct consequence of the use01:22:49
discovery of an and ritualistic use of01:22:52
psychedelic substances but anyways01:22:54
Eliana identified three pathways to01:22:58
shamanism and the shaman in it in a01:23:00
tribe was more educated than the typical01:23:04
person with a larger vocabulary and was01:23:08
the repository of the oral tradition and01:23:10
so learned all the stories that had been01:23:13
passed down word to mouth and people by01:23:16
the way are very very can very very01:23:19
accurately tell the same story across01:23:20
generations that's been quite well01:23:22
documented so and and people who can't01:23:25
read really can remember because what01:23:28
else are they going to do their memories01:23:30
are far greater than modern people's01:23:32
memories because we can forget01:23:33
everything because we can just look it01:23:34
up but they remembered things because01:23:37
they had no choice my father knew01:23:39
someone who was illiterate and and and01:23:42
and couldn't use numbers either when he01:23:45
grew up in Saskatchewan01:23:47
you know sixty years ago and he was a he01:23:50
had a sheep if I remember correctly and01:23:52
although he couldn't count he knew if01:23:54
one of his sheep was missing because he01:23:56
knew all the sheep and so he could tell01:23:58
just by looking if one of the sheep was01:24:00
missing but he couldn't count and so01:24:02
well so people who don't have our01:24:05
particular set of skills first of all01:24:06
they're not stupid and second they have01:24:08
other skills that we don't understand to01:24:10
fill in the gaps so le ah de identified01:24:13
spontaneous vocation so you were just01:24:16
you have this spirit of a shaman let's01:24:18
say so you're probably extremely high in01:24:19
openness let's say from a modern01:24:21
perspective hereditary transmission so01:24:23
you know your father was a shaman and01:24:25
your grandfather was a shaman and so01:24:26
forth and you got initiated into that01:24:28
process or a personal quest in Siberia01:24:33
this is from Ileana in Siberia the youth01:24:36
who is called to be a shaman attracts01:24:38
attention by his strange behavior for01:24:41
example he seeks solitude becomes01:24:42
absent-minded loves to roam in the woods01:24:44
or unfrequented places has visions and01:24:46
sings in his sleep you know if you put01:24:48
someone in a place that's deprived01:24:50
that's where you're you're deprived from01:24:53
a sensory perspective it normal people01:24:56
will hallucinate quite quickly so it01:24:58
seems what happens is that if you dampen01:25:00
down the sensory input then you start to01:25:02
become aware of the background processes01:25:04
of your mind it's something like that01:25:05
it's like the signal-to-noise ratio I01:25:07
got to get this right as the noise01:25:11
decreases some of the noise becomes01:25:14
signal the background noise become01:25:16
signal and you start to become aware of01:25:17
your own internal psychological process01:25:19
is it something like that he has visions01:25:22
and sings in his sleep in some instances01:25:24
this period of incubation is marked by01:25:26
quite serious symptoms among the accout01:25:28
young man sometimes has fits of fury and01:25:30
easily loses consciousness hides in the01:25:32
forest feeds on the bark of trees throws01:25:34
himself into water and fire and cuts01:25:37
themselves with knives we went to a part01:25:41
lash in northern northern Vancouver01:25:44
Island about a year ago and they had01:25:46
this one dance01:25:47
it was the croc Wakulla natives and they01:25:50
had this interesting dance that was the01:25:51
dance of the wild man and so the person01:25:54
who invited us was the wild man and he01:25:55
was dressed up and in tree branches and01:25:58
so forth and so he was the person who'd01:26:00
been in01:26:01
Bush too long and he came in as a01:26:03
cannibal and there there was genuine01:26:06
cannibalistic rights among these people01:26:07
not so long ago he came in as a cannibal01:26:10
and everybody had to wear this like01:26:11
cedar headdress because if you had a01:26:13
cedar headdress on then the cannibal01:26:15
wouldn't take a bite out of you and they01:26:17
actually took this rather seriously so01:26:19
you should have your cedar headdress on01:26:21
and so he's looking around the crowd and01:26:23
there's like 400 people in this place01:26:25
and he could really act - so he's doing01:26:27
this wild man dance and then all the01:26:29
women stood up and started to kind of01:26:32
dance in place and sing and they were01:26:35
taming him so that was really cool you01:26:37
know it was really interesting to see01:26:39
that because those people are about01:26:40
they've had an unbroken culture for01:26:42
about 13,000 years say that's how long01:26:44
they've been out there and it was very01:26:47
interesting to see that dramatization of01:26:49
the domestication of of man by women01:26:52
laid out in that dance in that way but01:26:55
it was also interesting in relationship01:26:57
to the shamanic tradition because he01:26:58
came in as a wild man right and he had01:27:00
to be re civilized in some sense and01:27:03
brought back down to earth so but by01:27:07
whatever method he may have been01:27:09
designated as shaman is recognized as01:27:11
such only after having received two01:27:13
methods of instruction the first is01:27:15
ecstatic dreams trances visions the01:27:18
other thing that this guy told me and I01:27:20
have no reason to doubt him he's also01:27:24
not a literate person and so has a great01:27:27
memory he does carving traditional01:27:29
carving and he's very good at it he01:27:31
carved a 53-foot totem pole that's now01:27:33
in front of the Museum of Art in01:27:35
downtown Montreal so if you ever go01:27:38
there you can go see it I won't be there01:27:40
forever but it's there right now and he01:27:44
was taught to carve by his grandparents01:27:45
and he said that he dreamed in you know01:27:49
you know what the Haida images look like01:27:51
so the Crocker walks are kind of like01:27:53
the high that same sort of imagery he01:27:54
told me that he dreamed in those images01:27:56
so when he dreams that's the form that01:27:59
the things he dreams about takes and he01:28:02
also said that he would talk to his01:28:04
grandparents in his dream so if he was01:28:05
working on a piece of wood and trying to01:28:07
figure out how to carve it and he ran01:28:09
into a particularly difficult problem01:28:11
he'd dream and his great he'd have a01:28:12
conversation with his grandparents and01:28:14
they'd help him figure to solve the problem and then he wake up01:28:16
and he could go Karva and the thing is01:28:18
he told me these things sort of01:28:20
matter-of-factly01:28:21
right like you don't you know what I01:28:22
mean it wasn't like he was telling me01:28:25
these weird things that happened to him01:28:27
although he was doing that to some01:28:28
degree he I asked him a lot of questions01:28:32
about what he carved and what it all01:28:34
meant and you know that was just part of01:28:36
his explanation of how he did it and he01:28:38
he carved me a couple of doors that I01:28:40
have in my house and one of them is01:28:43
quite interesting well the to make a01:28:45
panel and they're an underwater scene01:28:49
and under the water there's a bunch of01:28:50
you know mythical monsters some of them01:28:53
are killer whales and I think there's an01:28:55
octopus down there and carved in this01:28:57
particular style and he said that the01:28:59
other thing that happens to him when he01:29:00
dreams is he goes down to the bottom of01:29:02
the water where these mythical creatures01:29:04
are and he gets inspiration from them01:29:06
and so I thought that was extremely01:29:08
interesting too01:29:09
you know we we don't know what a mind01:29:12
that isn't hyper civilized let's say01:29:15
hyper literate like like our minds are01:29:17
cuz we're so bombarded by external01:29:19
stimuli we have no idea what the natural01:29:22
mind is like really and so it was quite01:29:25
interesting to to to listen to that and01:29:28
also to see the consequences cuz he's01:29:30
quite a great he's quite a great carver01:29:32
so the first is ecstatic dreams trances01:29:35
visions the second is traditional01:29:37
shamanic techniques names and functions01:29:39
of the spirits mythology and genealogy01:29:41
of the clan a secret language this01:29:44
twofold teaching imparted by the spirits01:29:46
and the old master shamans constitutes01:29:47
initiation well so you know modern01:29:50
people have a problem with that because01:29:51
we don't really get initiated but I01:29:53
would say that you know let's say that01:30:01
we reach out a quest of some sort you01:30:03
wouldn't be here I don't think if you01:30:05
weren't because why else would you be01:30:06
here and so you're on a quest of some01:30:10
sort to figure out to struggle with the01:30:13
meaning of life let's say and you don't01:30:16
want to do that alone because you only01:30:18
last like 70 years and good luck01:30:19
figuring it out on your on your own it's01:30:21
just not gonna happen it's too01:30:22
complicated and you'll be too isolated01:30:25
right if it's just you that's insanity01:30:27
that's no one can stand that and so you01:30:30
hope that other people have things to01:30:31
tell you and that your culture has01:30:33
something to tell you you know so you're01:30:34
on a quest maybe not with the same01:30:36
intensity as a shamanic initiate but you01:30:39
know let's give you some credit and then01:30:41
you're also trying to understand the01:30:44
wisdom of the past and that's the second01:30:47
part of this it's like okay well you're01:30:48
a human being and human beings have been01:30:49
telling stories for a long period of01:30:51
time trying to figure out what's going01:30:53
on trying to figure out how to orient01:30:54
themselves in the world and so you know01:30:56
partly what you're doing here is exactly01:30:58
what the shamanic initiatives in the01:31:00
second part of the process which is to01:31:02
expose yourself to the degree that you01:31:04
can - names and functions of the spirits01:31:08
mythology and genealogy of the clan and01:31:10
the secret language this twofold01:31:13
teaching imparted by the spirits and the01:31:15
old master shamans constitutes01:31:17
initiation so it's that's the rebirth01:31:20
right yeah that's that's what a nation01:31:22
is it's being born again and and that's01:31:26
a birth of the spirit rather than over01:31:28
the body it's something like that and so01:31:29
it's the rebirth of an integrated psyche01:31:31
that's one way of thinking about it and01:31:33
a psyche that's that's individual but01:31:36
also grounded in common humanity and the01:31:39
wisdom of common humanity and that makes01:31:41
you strong or at least it makes you01:31:43
stronger because there's a limit to your01:31:45
strength but God Only Knows to some01:31:48
degree what that limit is you know01:31:49
people can be unbelievably tough01:31:51
unbelievably tough and I think it's even01:31:54
the more admirable for human beings to01:31:56
be tough because we're so conscious of01:31:58
how we can be hurt and we're so01:32:00
conscious of what that hurt can lead to01:32:03
you know you can have your family taken01:32:05
away from you and you can be destroyed01:32:07
and the fact that you can be courageous01:32:09
in the face of that at all is something01:32:11
that is absolutely unbelievable right01:32:13
and people deserve a lot more credit I01:32:15
think then people give themselves01:32:17
because the fact that we can be01:32:20
honorable under conditions of life and01:32:23
death right of suffering that's that's a01:32:26
testament to the human spirit and01:32:28
there's a profound anti human ethos I01:32:33
think that pervades our culture you know01:32:34
that considers human beings cancers on01:32:37
the planet something like that you know01:32:38
and that there should be less of us it's01:32:40
the same01:32:41
spirit that motivated the guy who wrote01:32:43
the book about it better to have never01:32:46
been it's like I don't see it that way01:32:47
you know I mean I think people do pretty01:32:50
well for you know for having their leg01:32:53
caught in a bear trap and their head01:32:54
caught in a vise they're actually doing01:32:56
pretty well because life is really hard01:32:58
and the fact that we're not absolutely01:33:00
brutal and murderous all the time is01:33:02
really something remarkable given what01:33:05
we actually have to contend with that we01:33:06
can go out of our way to be honest and01:33:08
generous and altruistic and to care for01:33:11
each other under unbelievably dire01:33:13
circumstances and to act nobly sometimes01:33:16
under the most trying conditions you01:33:18
know in Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago01:33:20
he tells story after story of people who01:33:23
acted abysmally but also people who01:33:25
under the worst threats imaginable never01:33:28
sacrificed their character you know in01:33:30
reading about that is really well it01:33:35
really makes you wonder that's that's01:33:37
what it does the future shamans among01:33:39
the Tungus as they approach maturity go01:33:41
through a hysterical or a history would01:33:43
crisis but sometimes their vocation01:33:45
manifests itself at an earlier age the01:33:47
boy runs away into the mountains and01:33:48
remains there for a week or more feeding01:33:50
on animals which he tears to pieces with01:33:52
his teeth he returns to the village01:33:55
filthy blood-stained and it's only after01:33:57
10 or more days that have passed that he01:33:59
begins to babble incoherent words the01:34:02
strange behavior of future shamans has01:34:04
not failed to attract the attention of01:34:06
scholars and from the middle of the past01:34:07
century several attempts have been made01:34:09
to explain the phenomena as a mental01:34:11
disorder but the problem was wrongly put01:34:13
from the one hand it is not true that01:34:15
shamans always are always have to be01:34:17
neuropathic in mentally deranged on the01:34:21
other hand and this is the critical01:34:23
issue those among them who had been ill01:34:25
become shamans precisely because they01:34:26
had succeeded in becoming cured so it01:34:29
was it's not the descent into this01:34:31
strange subterranean psychological state01:34:34
that constitutes the transformation that01:34:38
makes the shaman but it's the emergence01:34:40
back out of it and that's a journey to01:34:41
the underworld in a and a rebirth right01:34:43
and so and there's this great book this01:34:45
is a great book by a guy named Henry01:34:48
Ellen birch a and he was an existential01:34:51
psychoanalyst and philosopher and he01:34:53
wrote a book called the Discoverer01:34:54
of the unconscious which I would highly01:34:56
recommend it's on my list of recommended01:34:57
readings it is a great book if you want01:34:59
to know about the psychoanalytic01:35:02
tradition it's the best introduction01:35:05
there is and he discusses Adler and Jung01:35:08
and Freud and there's a very credible01:35:10
job of all three but also takes the01:35:12
history of psychoanalytic thought back01:35:14
three or four hundred years before Freud01:35:16
and so it's it's very engaging reading01:35:19
and and and and very interesting and one01:35:22
of the things alan burridge a points out01:35:23
quite clearly is and he associates this01:35:27
to some degree with this shamanic01:35:28
tradition that both Freud and Jung Jung01:35:30
in particular underwent very intense01:35:33
periods of psychological disturbance01:35:35
let's say and I would say what was01:35:37
happening is that because they were01:35:39
questioning their axioms at the most01:35:42
fundamental level they were deranging01:35:44
their cognitive and perceptual01:35:45
structures right and Jung was also01:35:47
experimenting with imaginative01:35:49
techniques with visionary techniques01:35:51
which he which he did a lot and there is01:35:53
a period of his life where he was having01:35:55
constant a constant stream of visions01:35:58
which he wrote down in a book called the01:35:59
red book but at the same time he was01:36:02
still functioning as a psychiatrist and01:36:04
operating normally in the world and so01:36:06
you know people have suggested that what01:36:09
he had was a psychotic break but that's01:36:10
ridiculous because you don't know that's01:36:12
not how it works man if you're having a01:36:14
psychotic break you you know I've been01:36:16
an effective psychiatrist those things01:36:18
do not go together especially not for a01:36:19
long period of time and so there there's01:36:22
the possibility of extreme experience01:36:25
without psycho psychopathology and so01:36:29
and Allen Burgess he says much the same01:36:32
thing about Freud and about Charles01:36:34
Darwin as well who underwent a terrible01:36:36
period of of mental confusion I would01:36:42
say as a consequence of formulating his01:36:44
theory of evolution which was really01:36:46
hard on him because he was a he was a01:36:47
die-hard Christian and he knew what he01:36:50
knew what the implications of his theory01:36:52
word he didn't know what to do about01:36:53
that you know so it was very very hard01:36:55
on him so it's quite common for people01:36:57
of genius to go through an intense01:37:00
crisis psychological crisis but then01:37:03
resolve it and the genius is in the01:37:05
resolution right01:37:06
the01:37:07
precondition for the genius is the01:37:08
dissolution in some sense because you01:37:10
have to be obsessed with the problem it01:37:12
has to grip you completely before you're01:37:14
going to concentrate it on it's so01:37:15
obsessively that you might come up with01:37:16
a solution but it's the people who come01:37:18
up with a solution that are the prophets01:37:22
in the shaman and so forth and so on and01:37:23
and and so that's not this isn't01:37:26
something that only characterizes01:37:28
archaic cultures we just don't recognize01:37:29
it in our own culture properly and and01:37:32
that's a problem well sometimes we do01:37:36
right you remember that in the Lion King01:37:39
right that Rafiki shows up he's the01:37:41
shaman he brings he brings Simba down01:37:46
that tunnel dark tunnel that's the dark01:37:47
night of the soul he has him reflect01:37:49
upon himself in a pool when he reflects01:37:52
upon himself deeply he sees the01:37:53
reflection of his father then that01:37:55
becomes a car thing of cosmic01:37:56
significance and his father appears in01:37:59
the sky just like God appears to jacob01:38:02
and basically tells them that it's time01:38:04
for him to grow the hell up and to01:38:06
return to the devastated kingdom and to01:38:09
set it right you know and so and that's01:38:12
right that's exactly right I mean we01:38:14
live in the devastated Kingdom that's an01:38:16
eternal truth and it's the01:38:17
responsibility of the individual to grow01:38:19
the hell up and to set it right because01:38:23
when it's devastated and when things are01:38:25
not in place then everyone suffers too01:38:27
much and that's not good01:38:29
and there's no excuse for not doing01:38:30
something about it because you don't01:38:32
have anything better to do so and even01:38:36
like children's movies tell you this so01:38:40
[Music]01:38:42
this is a fun one this is from the Eid01:38:46
wine Psalter 9th to 12th century and01:38:48
that's Adam and Eve but the there is01:38:52
speculation that the fruit that they're01:38:54
eating there you see it is psilocybin01:38:56
mushrooms right because they're the only01:38:59
kind of mushroom that grow like that so01:39:02
that's pretty wild01:39:03
you might say and then this is the I01:39:07
think it's called Bannister realign if I01:39:09
remember correctly and it's what01:39:10
ayahuasca is made out of and it has this01:39:12
double helix form which is very very01:39:15
interesting and they the people the01:39:17
natives nobody could figure out how the01:39:18
hell they made this ayahuasca we01:39:20
which transports people spiritually in a01:39:23
very intense manner and there's a whole01:39:25
religion based on it like a modern01:39:27
religion as well as the archaic religion01:39:29
and to make this stuff they had to take01:39:31
two plants that don't grow anywhere near01:39:33
each other and like there's like a01:39:35
million plants in the Amazon so like how01:39:37
do you figure that out nobody knows and01:39:39
then you have to cook them in this very01:39:41
particular way for a particular amount01:39:43
of time before you produce this stuff so01:39:45
one of the plants has DMT in it which is01:39:47
a very intense psychedelic but it's very01:39:49
short acting and the other has an MAO01:39:52
inhibitor so if you take the DMT and you01:39:55
take the MAO inhibitor then the DMT trip01:39:57
lasts for much longer and so that's what01:39:59
these Amazonian natives figured out and01:40:01
no one has any idea how they managed it01:40:03
and if you ask them they tell you that01:40:05
the plants told them how to do it which01:40:07
isn't much of an explanation as far as01:40:09
modern people are concerned but then01:40:11
when modern people take the ayahuasca01:40:12
and the plant so to speak starts to talk01:40:16
to them there are a little less leery of01:40:18
the whole theory that the plants had01:40:19
something to do with this so you know01:40:22
and these things that these I'm loathe01:40:24
to talk about this because I'm not an01:40:26
advocate for drug use but by the same01:40:29
token you can't ignore empirical data01:40:31
it's not reasonable and the empirical01:40:34
data that psychedelic substances can01:40:36
produce mystical experiences and that01:40:38
those often have a transformative effect01:40:39
I mean one of the latest studies showed01:40:41
that if you took people who are dying of01:40:43
cancer and you and you gave them01:40:45
psilocybin in a sufficient dose to01:40:47
produce a mystical experience that you01:40:49
radically it decreased their their fear01:40:51
of death it's like you go to think about01:40:55
that man that's that's tough that's a01:40:58
tough experiment you you just wouldn't01:41:00
expect that that you think you take01:41:02
someone you'd arranged them intensely01:41:05
and then when they come back they're not01:41:07
even though they're dying they're not01:41:08
nearly as afraid of dying you know you01:41:10
got to kind of wake up and smell the01:41:12
roses when you see something like that01:41:14
and the people who are doing this01:41:15
research are very reliable people so01:41:18
there's the Amanita muscaria you know01:41:21
there's this old idea it's quite a funny01:41:23
idea01:41:24
toadstools so flies like Amanita01:41:26
muscaria and there's some this is01:41:29
ridiculous there's some evidence that01:41:31
they actually like getting stoned01:41:34
so cuz animals will eat these like01:41:36
reindeer will eat these things too and01:41:37
they get pretty tripped out by them and01:41:39
so I have this book on psychedelic use01:41:42
among animals which is a small book but01:41:44
and so so there's there's this idea that01:41:49
toads used to sit around the they have01:41:51
any NamUs carry and wait for the stone01:41:53
flies to like buzz badly around them and01:41:56
then snap them up so that's pretty funny01:41:58
I think and so and you know there are01:42:02
mushrooms in in the u.s. that are the01:42:04
oldest the oldest organisms on the01:42:07
planet a there's one mushroom I can't01:42:09
remember where it is but it covers01:42:10
something like oh god I don't know like01:42:12
square hundreds of square miles it's01:42:15
like this huge thing because it's all01:42:16
underground right and they have these01:42:18
very complex networks of my Celia01:42:21
they're called and they think the thing01:42:23
is like a hundred and fifty thousand01:42:24
years old something like that so there's01:42:27
plenty of things about the world that we01:42:28
don't know that's for sure there's the01:42:32
chemical makeup of the classic01:42:34
psychedelics you see they all have the01:42:36
same fundamental structure this is01:42:37
serotonin that's the one of the major01:42:40
brain neurotransmitters and so what01:42:41
happens with the psychedelics is that01:42:43
they they alter the they alter the brain01:42:47
function by altering the neuro chemical01:42:51
utilization of serotonin01:42:53
they changed the manner in which the01:42:54
serotonergic systems worked and the01:42:57
serotonin system is very basic system01:42:59
because when you're an embryo and your01:43:01
brain is developing it's the serotonin01:43:03
projections that basically orchestrate01:43:05
the development of your brain so they're01:43:07
and they're very archaic circuits very01:43:09
very archaic circuits so and this is the01:43:14
paper I think I stole this from01:43:16
psilocybin Griffiths who's been doing a01:43:19
lot of this research psilocybin can01:43:20
occasion mystical type experiences01:43:22
having substantial and sustained01:43:23
personal meaning and spiritual01:43:25
significance01:43:26
so why that's a good question right like01:43:31
so so here's a question for you it is01:43:34
beyond dispute that human beings are01:43:35
capable of religious experience why why01:43:40
is that exactly and like you can01:43:43
associate it with psychosis but that01:43:44
doesn't work if the theory doesn't hold01:43:47
theory hold water it's not the same thing so01:43:50
why is it there exactly and it's not an01:43:54
easy thing to figure out like I've been01:43:56
trying to figure I'm always trying to01:43:57
figure out a biological explanation for01:43:58
everything right because if you want to01:44:00
find something to stand on you want to01:44:02
make sure that it can resist a challenge01:44:03
and so if I can find an explanation for01:44:05
something that's reductionistic and01:44:07
materialistic and biological then I'm01:44:09
going for that that's a tough one01:44:11
consciousness is a tough one the moral01:44:14
sense is a tough one they're not easy01:44:16
things to crack the Big Bang is a tough01:44:18
one so you know I mean a cynic might say01:44:25
that maybe sometimes when people are01:44:29
close to suicide they'll have a mystical01:44:32
experience you know and you maybe you01:44:34
say well it's a last-ditch attempt of01:44:36
your brain to delude you into thinking01:44:38
that your life has some significance you01:44:40
know and that's a plausible theory but I01:44:44
don't think it counts for the generality01:44:47
of the phenomena so so I don't buy it01:44:56
what happens in the shamanic experience01:45:00
is that the shaman has the experience of01:45:03
being reduced to a skeleton first so01:45:06
death a deaf experience very realistic01:45:09
death experience and then the next thing01:45:11
that happens is that he finds himself in01:45:15
a place where he's communing with his01:45:16
ancestor or the ancestral spirits and01:45:19
then after that there's the climbing of01:45:22
something like the ladder Jacob's Ladder01:45:25
se and an encounter with God for all01:45:29
intents and purposes and it's very01:45:32
widespread phenomena it's the World Tree01:45:38
and I've thought about this a lot trying01:45:40
to figure out what this what this01:45:42
represents according to a yeah coot01:45:44
informant that's in Siberia the spirits01:45:46
carry the future shaman to hell and shut01:45:48
him in a house for three years here he01:45:50
undergoes his initiation the spirits cut01:45:52
off his head which they set off to one01:45:54
side for the novice must watch his own01:45:57
dismemberment with his own eyes01:45:58
dissolution to the primary elements in01:46:01
some and hack his body to bits which are01:46:03
later distributed among the spirits of01:46:05
various sicknesses it's only on this01:46:07
condition that the future shaman will01:46:09
obtain the power of healing his bones01:46:11
are then covered with new flesh and in01:46:12
some case he is also given new blood so01:46:15
there's a death and resurrection01:46:16
experience that's associated with the01:46:18
shamanic ritual we're here in the01:46:24
presence of a very ancient religious01:46:25
idea which belongs to the hunter culture01:46:27
bone symbolizes the final route of01:46:30
animal life the mould from which the01:46:31
flesh continually rises it is from the01:46:34
bone that men and animals are reborn for01:46:36
a time they maintain themselves in an01:46:38
existence of the flesh then they die and01:46:40
their life is reduced to the essence01:46:41
concentrated in the skeleton from which01:46:43
they will be born again that's a good01:46:49
graphic representation of the experience01:46:54
that's an old painting by I think it's01:46:56
her own amis Bosch if I remember01:46:58
correctly and I really like that because01:46:59
it's it's reminiscent of the near-death01:47:01
experiences that you hear people01:47:03
describe and they're quite common as01:47:05
well and and I had that very weird01:47:08
experience once I don't think I've told01:47:10
you this story01:47:11
I was I was assessing someone who had01:47:15
gone through a car windshield and he was01:47:16
very depressed it had happened a long01:47:18
time before but he was very depressed01:47:20
and the insurance company was basically01:47:22
accusing him of malingering because he'd01:47:25
been depressed for so long and you know01:47:26
he'd sort of healed up and everything01:47:28
but if your left hemisphere is damaged01:47:30
especially the frontal part of your left01:47:31
hemisphere then you can be in a chronic01:47:33
state of depression because the left01:47:35
hemisphere generally speaking is01:47:37
responsible for positive emotion and so01:47:39
if it isn't there then it's like01:47:40
negative emotion for you and so I01:47:43
wouldn't assess him and I was giving him01:47:45
this I think it was called the MMPI the01:47:47
Minnesota multiphasic personality01:47:49
inventory which is a kind of a standard01:47:52
path personality test half01:47:55
psychopathology test and he was filling01:47:59
it out he was a very serious guy01:48:00
middle-aged guy nothing about him was01:48:02
new agey in the least he was like an01:48:05
accountant I think I think in fact he01:48:07
was an accountant if I remember01:48:08
correctly and there was one question and01:48:12
it said my spirit has left my01:48:16
I think that's right it's very close and01:48:18
he stopped and he asked me well he said01:48:22
I'm not sure how to answer this and so I01:48:25
said well why and he said well after I01:48:27
went through the car windshield I was in01:48:29
a coma for three weeks something like01:48:32
that and I died I think he said he died01:48:33
three times and he said that he could01:48:36
remember he couldn't remember anything01:48:39
during that period of time and he01:48:40
couldn't remember the car accident01:48:41
that's retrograde amnesia it's quite01:48:43
corn common with head injuries and he01:48:45
said that during one of those01:48:47
experiences and this is all he01:48:49
remembered from the hospital was that he01:48:51
came out of his body and went down the01:48:54
long tunnel of light you've heard these01:48:56
near-death experiences and then saw his01:48:58
family members there and saw the01:49:00
heavenly light and then realized that it01:49:03
wasn't his time and came back to his01:49:05
body now what was interesting about this01:49:08
guy was that well first of all I didn't01:49:10
ask him about this right he basically01:49:12
volunteered this story and it was01:49:14
instigated by this question and and he01:49:20
didn't know that anybody else at any01:49:22
ever had an experience like that cuz I01:49:23
asked him if he'd ever heard anything01:49:25
about like that he said no so that was01:49:27
interesting but what really was01:49:29
interesting is how the hell did he01:49:31
remember that right because he had01:49:33
amnesia during that entire period of01:49:35
time he was in a bloody coma so he01:49:38
didn't remember anything they remembered01:49:39
that and so well those experiences are01:49:45
more common than you think and then01:49:47
there's a you know there's a painting of01:49:48
one which is quite interesting and01:49:50
that's like a tunnel to heaven it's the01:49:52
same basic idea it's a little bit more01:49:54
suffering going on in this one I think01:49:55
but that's pretty much typical of01:49:57
Hieronymous Bosch I mean I don't know01:49:59
what was up with that guy but he was he01:50:01
was one strange character now the01:50:04
Scandinavians have this idea that the01:50:07
world is a tree and I've been thinking01:50:11
about that a lot I think that the tree01:50:13
idea tree is something that is grounded01:50:17
in in matter let's say and that reaches01:50:20
up to heaven in the Scandinavian tree at01:50:22
the bottom there's quite a cool idea at01:50:23
the bottom of that see this tree is01:50:25
constantly being gnawed by snakes you01:50:27
can sort of see the snakes at the bottom01:50:29
and at the same time it's being watered01:50:31
and the water makes the tree grow at the01:50:33
same rate that the snakes gnaw on its01:50:35
roots so it's like a yin-yang idea you01:50:37
know that there's continual chaotic01:50:39
destruction and replacement at the basis01:50:41
of whatever this process is but the tree01:50:44
seems to me to be a representation not01:50:45
so much of its it's like a different01:50:48
dimensional space that's that's what's01:50:50
trying to be represented so imagine that01:50:53
you know you're structured if you take01:50:56
powers of ten magnification say human01:50:58
beings are about in the middle of the01:51:00
tiniest thing and the largest thing if01:51:02
you do it by my powers of 10 and so you01:51:05
know you have a subatomic level in an01:51:08
atomic level a molecular level and you01:51:10
know then that may be a level of organs01:51:14
and then there's you and then there's01:51:15
your family and so on all the way up the01:51:17
the tree fundamentally and so I think01:51:21
that what this tree represents and this01:51:23
is the things that thing that the shaman01:51:25
moves up and down I think that's what it01:51:27
represents it's this it's this different01:51:29
view of of its dimensionality it's01:51:32
something like that and I think that01:51:33
what happens in the psychedelic01:51:35
experience is that consciousness can01:51:36
travel up and down that structure it's01:51:38
something like that and maybe not only01:51:40
up and down it but maybe right through01:51:42
it and I know that's a radical claim01:51:44
it's a really radical claim and it might01:51:47
be wrong but it's probably wrong even01:51:50
because most radical claims are wrong01:51:52
but but but I'm not so sure it's wrong01:52:03
and here's something cool so that's the01:52:07
Scandinavian world tree and that was01:52:09
drawn by an anthropologist who visited01:52:13
the tribes in the Amazon who use01:52:15
ayahuasca now you see it's a snake it's01:52:23
a tree with snakes well you know that's01:52:25
reminiscent of the story in Adam and Eve01:52:28
obviously but it's also reminiscent of01:52:30
our primate dwelling place right because01:52:32
that was basically our ancestral home a01:52:35
tree surrounded by snakes and the snakes01:52:38
like to eat us and this is a long time01:52:40
ago this is like 50 million years ago01:52:43
it's really a long time ago and so we01:52:47
don't know where these images come from01:52:49
precisely but I do have the suspicion01:52:52
that we use the circuitry that we01:52:56
developed to detect snakes to represent01:52:59
the unknown as such because like a snake01:53:02
is something that comes out of the01:53:04
unknown and like we evolved right we all01:53:06
evolved out of an animal sub structure01:53:08
and so we had to get our our biological01:53:12
cognitive structure from somewhere and01:53:14
we have this capacity of thinking about01:53:16
the absolute unknown and the terrors01:53:18
that are involved in that that the01:53:20
horrors that can emerge from what we01:53:21
don't understand and it stands perfectly01:53:23
to reason that we would use circuits01:53:26
that were already pre developed for that01:53:27
and that this is a reasonable01:53:29
representation of the existential01:53:31
structure of the world so I think I01:53:36
might have showed you this before but it01:53:40
never ceases to amaze me this this01:53:42
picture so my son drew this when he was01:53:45
nine eight and so on the right you see01:53:47
mushroom houses and they have the names01:53:50
of all his friends on them and so that's01:53:53
order right and then on the left side01:53:56
you see chaos there and that little01:53:58
orange thing is a bug and then there's a01:54:00
river that runs right down the middle01:54:02
and so that's like the you know the01:54:05
yin-yang symbol with the divide in the01:54:07
middle that's quite cool and then01:54:08
there's there it is there's Jacob's01:54:10
Ladder it's like Jack and the Beanstalk which01:54:12
is by the way another variant of the01:54:15
same shamanic story01:54:17
and there are bugs going up and down it01:54:18
they're taking messages from heaven01:54:21
and then up there in heaven it's got the01:54:24
Sun and there's st. Peter and I don't01:54:26
know where in the world he got this it's01:54:28
not like he had a lot of religious01:54:30
education I mean despite me and you know01:54:34
there's the pearly gates up there and01:54:36
then that was the world as far as his he01:54:38
had a very well ordered psyche I would01:54:40
say and and still does but when he drew01:54:43
that it just absolutely blew me away and01:54:45
so I had it laminated and it's in my01:54:47
office because well I don't know because01:54:50
like what the hell do you make of that01:54:51
you know that's that's why so well you01:55:07
sort of get the picture there you know01:55:08
the cathedrals the great cathedrals of01:55:10
Europe are there like the forests in01:55:14
stone right and they try to represent01:55:16
the light coming through the leaves and01:55:18
so it's sort of our ancestral forest01:55:20
home but it's it's transformed into01:55:22
these great sculptures of stone and you01:55:25
know they produce all because of the01:55:27
combination of light and darkness and01:55:29
color but also I think for the same01:55:31
reason that huge trees produce awe and01:55:33
people you know and we don't want them01:55:35
cut down they seem sacred in some sense01:55:37
and perhaps they are but you know it01:55:42
also seemed to me this is an intuition01:55:45
that the the architects of these great01:55:48
cathedrals were trying to get they're01:55:50
trying to express something that's deep01:55:52
and structural they're trying time01:55:54
trying to express the idea that if being01:55:56
was constituted properly then it would01:55:59
be organized from the subatomic level01:56:01
all the way up to the highest cosmic01:56:04
level perfectly so every layer stacked01:56:07
on top of each other without any01:56:08
contradictions now that would be an01:56:10
ideal mode of being and everything would01:56:12
come together under those circumstances01:56:14
and that's what's being expressed in01:56:17
these cathedrals it's not all that's01:56:18
being expressed because they're also01:56:19
shaped like a cross and you know the01:56:21
idea is that the center of the cross01:56:24
which is the center of suffering is also01:56:25
the place of the individual the place01:56:27
where the transformation takes place01:56:29
that's all built into the architect01:56:30
as well and so then there's the tree01:56:39
like structures that make us up it01:56:43
stretched down to the tiniest realities01:56:49
the microcosm and there's this this idea01:56:58
it's all represented in the same way01:57:00
again it's this idea especially the01:57:01
Mandela up in the top-right it's the01:57:04
idea of is perfection of crystalline01:57:07
structure and that's what the Yogi's are01:57:09
trying to attain when they organize01:57:11
their bodies they're trying to get every01:57:12
single layer of their being aligned01:57:15
properly and it's something like and you01:57:17
can kind of see an echo of that in the I01:57:19
think that's a Tibetan sand painting if01:57:22
I remember correctly left the idea is01:57:26
that if you get yourself a line properly01:57:28
then information can flow along that01:57:30
tree that that's you without without01:57:35
impediment something like that and that01:57:37
would be like a state of optimal health01:57:39
and that both physical and spiritual01:57:42
exercises can put you in that state and01:57:45
that's well those are all clouds of01:57:47
ideas that surround this idea of a01:57:49
ladder to heaven so Jacob is talking to01:57:54
God and God says behold I am with thee01:57:56
and I will keep thee in all places where01:57:59
you go and bring you again into this01:58:01
land for I won't leave you until I have01:58:03
done that which I have spoken to you of01:58:04
and Jacob awakened out of his sleep and01:58:09
he said surely the Lord is in this place01:58:10
and I knew it not and he was afraid and01:58:12
said how dreadful is this place this is01:58:15
none other but the house of God and this01:58:16
is the gate of heaven when Jacob rose up01:58:19
early in the morning and took the stone01:58:21
that he had put for his pillows and set01:58:22
it up for a pillar and poured oil on top01:58:25
of it that's a sacrifice and he called01:58:28
the name of that place Bethel but the01:58:29
name of the city was called l-'izzat the01:58:31
first and Jacob vowed a vow saying if01:58:34
God will be with me and will keep me in01:58:36
this way that I go and will give me01:58:37
bread to eat and raiment to put on so01:58:40
that I come again to my father's house01:58:42
in peace then shall the Lord be my god01:58:44
and this stone which I have set for a01:58:46
pillar shall be God's house and of all01:58:48
of that that is given to me I will01:58:50
surely give the tenth unto thee and01:58:54
that's a pretty good place to stop so01:58:58
now I'll just conclude so you have this01:59:04
very morally ambivalent character right01:59:07
who's so far pretty much everything he's01:59:09
done that we're familiar with is not01:59:12
good so he's he's betrayed his brother01:59:14
horribly twice badly enough so that he01:59:17
his brother wants to kill him and01:59:18
everyone can kind of sympathize with his01:59:21
brother so and then he runs away01:59:23
essentially because his mother tells him01:59:26
to which is not exactly a testament to01:59:28
his character and despite that strangely01:59:32
enough he has this experience you know01:59:35
and that's heartening I guess and that's01:59:38
the point is that people are predisposed01:59:42
to terrible error there's no doubt about01:59:45
that and yet when I was writing my01:59:50
latest book I had a friend of mine01:59:52
Norman Doidge wrote the foreword and01:59:55
Norma's written a couple of great books01:59:57
and he's Jewish and he read some of what02:00:01
I'd written and he took me to task for02:00:03
making the god of the Old Testament you02:00:06
know from a Christian perspective too02:00:08
harsh and unforgiving and I rewrote a02:00:12
fair bit of it because of his criticism02:00:14
and because of what I've learned doing02:00:15
these lectures it's like it's not02:00:17
exactly right you know I mean what02:00:19
happens in the Old Testament is if you02:00:21
screw up especially if you know you do02:00:23
and you decide that you're not going to02:00:25
do anything about it so it's conscious02:00:26
and deliberate then like look the hell02:00:29
out you are in serious trouble and I02:00:31
actually think that's also02:00:33
psychologically accurate one of the02:00:34
things young pointed out and this always02:00:36
struck me was that if you don't know02:00:39
what you're doing this is actually in02:00:40
the Gospel of Thomas as well02:00:41
interestingly enough as one of the02:00:43
caustic Gospels Christ tells his02:00:45
followers something like if you make a02:00:47
mistake and you don't know what you're02:00:48
doing then you'll be forgiven for it but02:00:51
if you make a mistake knowing what02:00:52
you're doing and you do it anyways then02:00:55
like good luck to you02:00:57
and and and I think that's I think02:01:00
that's that's psychologically accurate I02:01:03
mean one of the things that's very02:01:10
interesting about the judgmental God in02:01:12
the Old Testament however is that he can02:01:15
be bargained with and even if you make02:01:17
mistakes especially if you're02:01:20
unconscious of them if you haven't02:01:21
learned yet let's say then you always02:01:25
have the opportunity to return to the02:01:26
proper path and that's people get02:01:29
cynical about that because there's no02:01:30
this mostly Christian idea that you02:01:33
could live a terribly sinful life but if02:01:34
you repented on your deathbed it's like02:01:36
heaven for you and it's like oh that's02:01:38
that sounds like a great deal right it's02:01:40
like you can do whatever the hell you02:01:41
want until just before you die of course02:01:44
you might not know when that is so02:01:45
that's a problem you then you can just02:01:47
say well I'm sorry and you know02:01:48
everything's forgiven but the problem02:01:50
with being cynical about that sort of02:01:51
thing is that it's no trivial matter to02:01:53
repent you know because to repent means02:01:57
a figure out what you actually did and02:01:59
the worst things that you did the more02:02:02
horrible it is to figure it out it's no02:02:05
joke right and there's no genuine02:02:07
repentance without understanding of the02:02:09
depth of your depravity and so if you02:02:13
lived a particularly reprehensible life02:02:15
and you come to understand it I think02:02:18
that in and of itself could kill you you02:02:20
know it's a terrible thing to wake up02:02:23
and see what you've done if what you've02:02:25
done is truly terrible so there's no02:02:30
easy out it's not an easy out it's it's02:02:32
just pure cynicism to associate that02:02:34
idea with with an easy oh it's not but02:02:37
there is that positive idea that it's02:02:40
continually represented is that the02:02:42
individual is the source of moral choice02:02:45
and the individual is prone to genuine02:02:50
error and temptation in a believable and02:02:53
realistic way but that that doesn't02:02:55
sever the relationship between the02:02:57
individual and the divine and the02:02:59
possibility of further growth and then I02:03:02
would say well thank God for that02:03:03
because without that like who would have02:03:05
a chance right who would have a chance02:03:07
and so the idea that02:03:11
the daddy has presented the infinite02:03:13
let's say as presented in the Old02:03:14
Testament is merely judgmental is02:03:16
definitely wrong and and is in fact02:03:18
something that you can contend with and02:03:21
Argan with oh I'll close with one thing02:03:23
one of the things that I learned that02:03:25
while I was going through this was the02:03:27
meaning of the name Israel because Jacob02:03:29
eventually gets named Israel and and I'm02:03:32
jumping ahead a little bit to the next02:03:34
lecture but Israel and so he's also the02:03:37
father of Israel and the father of the02:03:39
twelve sons who make up the twelve02:03:41
tribes of Israel02:03:42
but what Israel means is he who02:03:44
struggles with God and that's such an02:03:47
interesting idea because it's again a02:03:49
psychological idea and that's why I said02:03:52
earlier that it isn't obvious in the Old02:03:53
Testament what it means to believe in02:03:55
God because what Jacob does is struggle02:03:57
with God and I think that that's a02:03:59
really good characterization of an02:04:01
ethical life because if you're trying to02:04:04
lead an ethical life that's what you're02:04:05
doing is you're struggling like blind02:04:08
belief isn't helpful because you don't02:04:10
know what you're believing in like it's02:04:11
just not that helpful but if you're02:04:14
possessed by by the desire to orient02:04:17
yourself properly but also confused by02:04:19
the by the existential structure of the02:04:22
world which we all are then then what02:04:24
you're doing when you're trying to02:04:25
orient yourself properly in life is02:04:27
struggling ethically and Jacob actually02:04:30
gets quite hurt he wrestles with God02:04:32
literally and God dislocates his his his02:04:35
thigh and so you know the idea there is02:04:38
watch the hell out right the thing that02:04:40
you're contending with is powerful02:04:43
although you can contend with it that's02:04:45
the thing that's so interesting but you02:04:46
know you do it at some genuine peril02:04:48
which i think is exactly right but the02:04:51
idea that Israel so there's Israel the02:04:53
state let's say it Israel the promised02:04:55
land and all of that but there's this02:04:56
more important idea which is again a02:04:58
psychological idea which is the State of02:05:00
Israel which is the promised land is the02:05:03
state that everyone who wrestles with02:05:05
God exists in and that's not happy naive02:05:12
belief in you know an eternally blessed02:05:16
afterlife it's not that it's not a wish02:05:18
fulfillment it's it's it's to be02:05:20
actively engaged in life in the02:05:23
difficulties of life02:05:24
right and trying to find the path02:05:26
because that's what wrestling with God02:05:29
is is trying to find the path and that02:05:32
seems to me what belief means02:05:34
fundamentally in the Old Testament02:05:35
perhaps in the New Testament as well is02:05:38
that belief is expressed in trying to02:05:41
find the path and that's an ethical02:05:43
struggle and it's a real struggle it's02:05:45
the struggle of life so as long as02:05:46
you're willing to engage in that02:05:48
struggle then hypothetically you have02:05:51
the divine behind you and so I believe02:05:57
that I think that's true because the02:06:00
other thing I see is that the people who02:06:02
set things right02:06:04
so that yeah the the horrible forces of02:06:09
cosmic destruction don't do us in the02:06:11
people who are trying to set things02:06:13
right are the ones that are struggling02:06:14
ethically and so and that there is a02:06:17
redemptive element to that and I don't02:06:20
think there's any way of being cynical02:06:21
about that so well so thank you will02:06:27
[Applause]02:06:50
so remember to speak right into the mic02:06:53
because there are all these other people02:06:54
watching that will hear it will hear us02:06:57
so okay02:07:00
hi dr. Peterson so with the story of02:07:03
Jacob today there was a theme of02:07:04
betrayal and you can see that from the02:07:06
beginning because he was very angry and02:07:07
jealous at his brother02:07:08
I was thinking are there new stories or02:07:11
we can say about betrayal that does come02:07:13
from a loved one right where it's not02:07:15
from a place of so black and white of02:07:17
anger resentment and bitter and how do02:07:19
the parties kind of recover from that or02:07:23
is there any way to redeem that or is it02:07:25
as black and white as if you betray02:07:26
someone then there it's like Jacob where02:07:29
hatred no and in fact in this story it's02:07:33
not black and white because we know02:07:35
we're only halfway through it and one of02:07:38
the things I've noticed as a clinician02:07:40
let's say is that and as an observer of02:07:43
people in general is that I've never02:07:45
ever seen anyone get away with anything02:07:47
and Jacob doesn't get away with any of02:07:50
this and so you know he's humbled by his02:07:55
eventual experiences and he learns that02:07:58
he did it wrong and there's02:08:00
reconciliation that happens throughout02:08:02
the story of Jacob so and there's minor02:08:05
betrayals and major betrayals you know02:08:07
that some of them have tremendously02:08:09
serious consequences and some of them02:08:11
have lesser consequences but there is an02:08:13
underlying idea that things can still be02:08:15
set right even though it's well I think02:08:19
it takes Jacob some 20 years something02:08:22
like that to set things right and even then it's02:08:25
like touch and go so if I answer your02:08:28
question okay yeah hey you speak02:08:34
frequently in your lectures about I02:08:37
guess the war between good and evil or02:08:39
the struggle of life really is a02:08:41
struggle between good and evil being at02:08:43
the core of a conscious lived existence02:08:46
and I guess on that note if you were02:08:53
100% certain that there was no afterlife02:08:57
would you still02:08:58
be able to preach that there's a02:09:00
positive meaning in life if you were a02:09:03
hundred percent certain some atheists02:09:05
seem to be 100 percent certain and yet02:09:07
they still preach that there's some02:09:09
positive meaning to life would you be02:09:11
one of those or would you turn into Cain02:09:13
you know so cynical I think that well as02:09:17
far as I'm concerned one of the things I02:09:19
learned from studying 20th century02:09:22
history is that like even if the idea02:09:24
that even if you take the most cynical02:09:26
of ideas let's say that life is02:09:29
irredeemable suffering and and perhaps02:09:31
isn't even justified because of that it02:09:35
still seems to me that you have an02:09:38
ethical duty let's say to live in a02:09:41
manner that reduces that to the degree02:09:43
part that that's possible and so and I02:09:47
think that that can be experienced as02:09:49
meaningful in some sense independently02:09:51
of the transcendent context now I don't02:09:53
exactly know how to strip off the02:09:55
transcendent context because one of the02:09:58
things I would say that's happened to me02:09:59
is because I've spent so much time02:10:01
looking at the horrible things that02:10:02
people have done is that it's like Jung02:10:05
said that he when this is one of his02:10:07
famous quotes he said no tree can reach02:10:10
up to heaven unless its roots reach down02:10:12
to hell and so as I've dug deeper into02:10:15
the depravity of human beings my sense02:10:19
of the possibility of human beings has02:10:21
also grown what would you say in02:10:25
proportion and until I've become02:10:28
convinced actually that good is a more02:10:30
powerful force than evil even though02:10:32
evil is an unbelievably powerful force02:10:34
and so I can't really strip the02:10:36
transcendent away now whether what02:10:38
bearing that has on eternity say on an02:10:40
afterlife i mean i i i I can't say02:10:44
anything about that the only thing I02:10:46
guess I can say is that there are many02:10:48
things about being that we don't02:10:50
understand in the least and we don't02:10:53
understand the nature of consciousness02:10:54
or the nature of time so I I'm not I02:10:58
wouldn't despair about that but yes I02:11:00
think that life can still be meaningful02:11:02
without without there being a necessity02:11:05
of an afterlife02:11:10
no no no no hi dr. Pederson02:11:19
so since studying your work one of the02:11:21
things that I found most fascinating is02:11:23
your analysis of the story of Cain and02:11:26
Abel and my question is if if Cain got02:11:33
to the point that he did right before02:11:37
killing his brother murdering his ideal02:11:39
and decided that that was something he02:11:42
didn't want to do what advice or02:11:45
guidance would you would you give a02:11:47
person that got to that point02:11:52
well there's a story I read called the02:11:59
cocktail party I've mentioned this02:12:01
before by TS Eliot and in the cocktail02:12:04
party there's a scene it's a play where02:12:06
this woman approaches a psychiatrist and02:12:09
and starts talking to him about her02:12:10
problems and she says something that02:12:13
surprises him she says I hope that I'm02:12:15
the problem he says well why would you02:12:18
hope that and she says well I thought02:12:20
about it a lot and if the world is the02:12:22
problem then I'm done because I can't02:12:24
change the world but if I'm the problem02:12:26
then maybe there's something about02:12:27
myself I can change and I can undo this02:12:30
terrible situation that I'm in and so I02:12:33
would say that's repentance02:12:35
fundamentally it's like there if and I02:12:39
say this carefully because I understand02:12:41
that people are susceptible to bad02:12:45
fortune sin and ignorance can make that02:12:50
worse but independently of that like02:12:52
good people suffer make no mistake about02:12:55
it but if things aren't right for you if02:13:01
you're resentful about being because02:13:04
that's the right way of because that's02:13:06
the deepest way of thinking about if you02:13:08
read the writings of the people who do02:13:10
the mass killings for example that's02:13:12
what you see over and over it's cain02:13:13
it's like they're angry beyond02:13:16
comprehension at the in tolerability of02:13:19
being and they're angry at God02:13:22
even if they don't say it exactly like02:13:23
that they come so close to saying it02:13:25
like that that it's there's no02:13:27
difference you know what God says to02:13:31
Cain is look to yourself first before02:13:33
you criticize being and that strikes me02:13:38
as right it's because to not do that is02:13:41
arrogant beyond belief that's satanic02:13:43
arrogance literally if something like02:13:45
that can be literal it's like don't make02:13:48
yourself the judge of being before you02:13:50
clean up your your room let's say and02:13:56
because the other thing to it this is02:13:58
something I learned in some part from02:13:59
Solzhenitsyn when he was in the prison02:14:01
camps and trying to understand how these02:14:03
heroic people he saw could possibly02:14:05
manage it one of the exercises he02:14:07
undertook and he really viewed this02:14:08
within a Christian Orthodox context of02:14:11
repentance and redemption is he said he02:14:13
went over his life with a fine-tooth02:14:15
comb and tried to imagine all of the02:14:19
ethical mistakes he made in his entire02:14:22
life that he knew were mistakes it was02:14:25
it was this was the soul searched not he02:14:28
wasn't relying on external standards of02:14:30
morality except insofar as we're02:14:32
inevitably influenced by those and then02:14:34
his idea was is there something I could02:14:36
do right now to put that right and02:14:39
that's the right question like if things02:14:41
aren't going your way and I think that02:14:44
means that you're resentful and arrogant02:14:46
and deceitful those are the three things02:14:48
that clump together I think that02:14:50
constitute the core of evil it's02:14:52
something like that and so if you're02:14:54
possessed by that which is a hell then02:14:58
its repentance that's the right answer02:15:00
and what that means is you have to02:15:02
figure out what you did wrong and you02:15:04
have to pay for it and then at least you02:15:07
could think well look I can try that02:15:08
with all of my soul let's say and see02:15:11
what happens right it can at least be an02:15:14
experiment and then I would also say02:15:15
that that's an act of faith it's an act02:15:17
of faith to conduct that experiment02:15:19
because you put yourself on the line02:15:21
right and that's what an active faith is02:15:23
you don't know the outcome but you don't02:15:24
know the outcome of your life so live in02:15:27
some sense is an act of faith you're02:15:29
putting faith in something that that's02:15:31
why you're moving forward you couldn't02:15:32
move forward without an act of faith you02:15:34
know and people say well I own02:15:36
move forward on the basis of the facts02:15:38
it's like yeah but you select the facts02:15:40
and there's an infinity of facts and02:15:42
they don't just tell you what to do so02:15:43
it's not a credible answer so if you're02:15:47
in that situation it's like look to02:15:51
yourself you know and one of the things02:15:53
about Solzhenitsyn that's so bloody02:15:55
amazing is that's what he did and then02:15:57
he wrote the Gulag Archipelago and you02:15:59
know he took an axe to the intellectual02:16:01
and moral substructure of of the02:16:03
totalitarian communist states so while02:16:06
he was redeeming himself let's say he02:16:09
was simultaneously redeeming the world02:16:11
and you know you see something like that02:16:14
like you you gotta wake up man that's02:16:16
that was really something so yeah dr.02:16:29
Peterson I have a lot of questions that02:16:30
arise from your comments at the Bell for02:16:32
one hundred event your m103 video your02:16:34
recent discussion with ayaan Hirsi Ali02:16:36
and your comments on Islam in the West02:16:38
in general and in your comments there's02:16:40
this common theme that one of these02:16:42
things is not like the other you put the02:16:43
judeo-christian tradition on the one02:16:45
side and Islam on the other specifically02:16:48
the quote complex problem of Islam in02:16:50
the quote as a quote totalizing system02:16:52
and before I go further let me state02:16:54
that if hypothetically a final analysis02:16:57
of Islam resulted in as total of02:16:58
denunciation as your analysis of02:17:00
post-modernism or near Marxism I02:17:02
wouldn't be personally offended at all02:17:03
this isn't a a personal question in your02:17:06
recent interview with ayaan Hirsi Ali02:17:08
she said Western values are superior to02:17:10
Islamic law and Islamic values I agree02:17:13
with that basically certainly in the context of02:17:15
let's say current global affairs I'll02:17:17
skip the quotes from a recent magazine02:17:18
interview but you should read them02:17:20
because hers is a worldview which is02:17:22
very much the West versus Islam not02:17:24
radical Islam but Islam including02:17:26
necessarily the military option so my02:17:29
question is at the level of02:17:30
psychological significance of these02:17:31
stories at the level of mythology and02:17:33
archetype how is Islam so different from02:17:35
the Jo Christian tradition you know02:17:37
because Adam Adam Eve of Shaitaan02:17:39
Shaitaan so on and so forth everything02:17:41
from the fault of the flood a lot of02:17:44
what you've discussed in this lecture02:17:45
series is necessarily part of Islam as02:17:46
well and in fact I think one of the02:17:48
strongest criticism of Islam02:17:50
that it's perhaps pretty unoriginal you02:17:52
know tonight you said that the moral02:17:54
presuppositions of a culture are02:17:56
instantiated in its stories I see a lot02:17:58
of the same stories so current global02:18:00
affairs aside I'm asking at the deepest02:18:02
levels how different are these stories02:18:04
in the morals presuppositions ok well02:18:07
that's that's a killer question well ok02:18:12
so the first thing I would say is02:18:14
fundamentally I don't know and so part02:18:18
of the reason that I'm one of the things02:18:20
I'm planning to do is to have a series02:18:22
of discussions and plenty of people have02:18:24
contacted me about discussing with ayaan02:18:27
Hirsi Ali as you know she has powerful02:18:30
and serious folks and they're not happy02:18:35
with her black and white distinction and02:18:39
so now I read infidel and I really liked02:18:43
that book like I my sense was that she02:18:45
she was a heroine now what that means in02:18:49
relationship to Islam that's a different02:18:51
story because she came out of a like a02:18:55
totalitarian let's say family structure02:18:58
in a relatively totalitarian society and02:19:01
you could make the case that there's a02:19:04
correspondence between that and his02:19:06
lemon you could make the case that there02:19:07
isn't and and of course that's the02:19:09
critical issue and so there's a couple02:19:13
of things that I can't wrap my head02:19:15
around with we have wrap my head around02:19:18
easily in relationship to Islam and so02:19:21
one is what I see as the failure to02:19:24
separate church from state and that's a02:19:27
problem now it may not be a problem as02:19:32
such but it's certainly a problem in02:19:34
relationship to the relation between02:19:36
Islam and the West because we separate02:19:38
church from state02:19:39
now there's fundamentalists in the02:19:41
United States Christian fundamentalists02:19:43
who think that that separation is a02:19:45
mistake so it's not only it's not only02:19:50
an idea that's rooted in Islam that02:19:51
those should be United but it's02:19:54
definitely a problem with regards to our02:19:56
coexistence because that's a02:19:57
fundamentally different presumption okay02:20:00
so that's problem number one problem02:20:03
number two for me and again this may be a02:20:05
consequence of my ignorance which I'm02:20:07
trying to rectify Muhammad was a warlord02:20:11
and I I don't know what to do about that02:20:15
fact like one thing you can say about02:20:18
Christ hypothetically let's say I'm not02:20:22
talking about a historical reality02:20:24
necessarily although I'm not denying it02:20:27
either is that of all the things he was02:20:30
warlord was definitely not one of them02:20:33
and I don't know what to do about that02:20:36
and so I don't know how to reconcile02:20:40
that and I don't know how to reconcile02:20:43
like not only was Muhammad a warlord02:20:47
which I don't think is an unreasonable02:20:49
thing to proclaim the expansion that he02:20:55
initiated was unbelievably successful I02:21:00
mean within six hundred years it was the02:21:02
biggest empire of the world had ever02:21:04
seen and a demolished Byzantine02:21:06
Christianity which is something that02:21:08
Western people don't even know you know02:21:11
I've read thinkers who said that the02:21:13
West was so traumatized culturally let's02:21:16
say by the demolition of Byzantine02:21:18
Christianity that we can't even study it02:21:20
now and so I don't know if that's true02:21:24
but I don't know that it's not true02:21:26
either02:21:27
and the Buddhists were wiped out of02:21:30
Afghanistan and we saw that echoed in02:21:33
talibans destruction of those great02:21:35
Buddhist monuments and so so what I'm02:21:41
hoping is that there's a bridge there02:21:46
better be a bridge and that's why I want02:21:49
to have these discussions because I'd02:21:51
like to understand if there's a bridge02:21:53
and so lots of people have sent me02:21:56
people who I should talk to who who they02:21:58
think represent Islam far better than02:22:00
ayaan Hirsi Ali and perhaps they're02:22:02
correct and hopefully I'll get an02:22:04
opportunity to talk to them because I02:22:06
would like to know why I would like to02:22:08
know if what I think is wrong because if02:22:12
it's wrong it's important that I know02:22:13
it's wrong but02:22:16
at the moment I don't a I don't know02:22:19
it's wrong and B I don't see I'm not02:22:27
sure what it signifies so and I don't02:22:31
think anyone is sure right because we02:22:33
have this entangled entangling of the02:22:37
civilizations you know when there's02:22:39
other things too like I'm not very happy02:22:42
with the Saudi Arabs and the Wahabis I02:22:45
don't think they're our allies I don't02:22:49
see how any Western woman can possibly02:22:51
think that they're our allies and I'm02:22:54
not happy with the fact that the petrol02:22:55
dollars that we send them are02:22:57
transformed in substantial part into the02:23:01
kind of propaganda that's definitely a02:23:04
threat to the West and I'm not very02:23:07
happy with the fact that our politicians02:23:09
appear stupidly blind to that now that02:23:13
may again be a consequence of my02:23:15
ignorance it's certainly possible but02:23:17
those are the sorts of things that that02:23:22
I can't reconcile and so you know I've02:23:29
seen that I've also seen parallels02:23:31
between the ideas that I'm presenting02:23:33
here and other religious traditions02:23:35
Taoism and Buddhism Hinduism it's harder02:23:40
for me to bridge the gap with Islam and02:23:41
I'm not sure why that is I think it has02:23:44
something to do with the things that I02:23:45
just laid out now what I don't know02:23:48
about Islam would feel very many volumes02:23:50
many of which I have sitting on my02:23:52
shelves at home right now because I want02:23:54
to do the reading you know as I progress02:23:56
through this but02:24:09
good evening dr. Pearson thanks for02:24:12
continuing this series even as atheists02:24:15
appreciate the interaction and the the02:24:19
conversation I wanted to ask you02:24:22
something that is both emotional and02:24:25
analytical because oftentimes you're02:24:28
basically pegged as seeing things very02:24:33
analytically so you were talking earlier02:24:35
about you were talking about the the the02:24:41
juxtaposition between happiness and02:24:45
honor even though I don't think they're02:24:48
mutually exclusive personally but if02:24:51
there's a situation let's say where02:24:53
someone is truly in love with someone02:24:56
else and they love them for many years02:24:57
and decades they have a whole history02:25:00
together and then someone and then one02:25:03
of the people in this grouping start02:25:08
falling in love with someone else so02:25:10
it's not that there's less love for the02:25:14
original partner how analytically and02:25:18
emotionally do you take care of a02:25:21
situation like that when you feel that02:25:24
you want to stay honorable and be happy02:25:27
okay so the first thing I would say is02:25:30
the devil is always in the details right02:25:32
so one of the things that I'm not happy02:25:36
about with much modern moral theorizing02:25:40
is that it takes a story like that you02:25:43
know and then tries to extract out a02:25:45
general moral principle and often that's02:25:48
impossible because the particulars of02:25:50
the situation are very important but02:25:53
having said that all right so let me02:25:56
think about that for a minute I'm not02:25:59
sure that it's possible to be honorable02:26:01
in a situation like that because I think02:26:02
that you've acted out the violation02:26:05
already and having acted out the02:26:08
violation to confess it might be the02:26:11
right thing to do although perhaps not02:26:13
you know because if you it isn't obvious02:26:16
to me that if you betray someone then02:26:18
you get to have the right to tell them02:26:19
about it I know I know you're not02:26:23
yeah yeah I understand I understand my02:26:31
observation has been that if there's a02:26:34
tight relationship and if one party is02:26:36
betrayed by the other in that matter02:26:37
that it's almost always irreconcilable02:26:40
it breaks it and you know I've helped02:26:45
people try to struggle through that but02:26:47
on both sides of it the person who was02:26:49
betrayed and the person who did the02:26:51
betrayal02:26:52
I've seen people grow up and not do it02:26:55
again and this was in situations where02:26:57
their partner didn't know and in a02:26:59
couple of those situations it seemed to02:27:01
me that it might have even been a02:27:03
necessary learning experience for the02:27:05
person who did it you know it it helped02:27:08
them develop and that doesn't mean I'm02:27:11
justifying it but life is complicated02:27:14
but but I think that society works02:27:20
better all things considered when you02:27:23
make a promise and you stick to it and02:27:25
one of the things I learned from reading02:27:28
young which which I really liked was you02:27:32
know he believed that and he had his02:27:35
affairs too so you might think about it02:27:37
as somewhat hypocritical but but I think02:27:40
that people can make mistakes without02:27:42
having what they think necessarily be02:27:44
wrong you know he said that there are02:27:46
things in a marriage that you can't have02:27:49
unless you're all-in and I believe that02:27:52
I believe that and so if there's a back02:27:54
door open or though like to begin with02:27:57
or a back door opens then I think that02:27:59
there's something about the relationship02:28:00
that is lacking at least and I think you02:28:04
pay a big price for that so I mean it02:28:07
depends on whether you regard a marriage02:28:09
as a practical arrangement or a02:28:12
spiritual arrangement now really it's02:28:14
both you know and both are important but02:28:18
if it's a spiritual arrangement or a02:28:19
psychological arrangement above all then02:28:22
I do think that you don't get the02:28:26
transformation without being all-in and02:28:28
if you violate it then even if you can02:28:30
work it out with your partner there's02:28:32
something that you will never get as a02:28:35
consequence02:28:36
so02:28:40
[Applause]02:28:44
last question okay I hope I'll make this02:28:47
good thanks also for a continuing the02:28:50
lecture series I haven't listened to all02:28:53
of the lectures but it seems like you02:28:54
focus very much on the appeal of the02:28:58
bible-- of stories to the individual02:28:59
psychology you have any thoughts on the02:29:02
relative importance of crowd psychology02:29:03
to the appeal and staying power of the02:29:06
bible and also the the reason why the02:29:09
Bible or the biblical stories took02:29:11
precedence over other ideologies which02:29:14
could have taken its place okay well02:29:17
let's go to the second one first I think02:29:25
it's the same thing that happens when02:29:28
someone both creates and edits a great02:29:32
movie it's no one knows like imagine how02:29:37
many choices are there in a great movie02:29:39
let's say it's an animated movie because02:29:40
absolutely everything in an animated02:29:42
movie is constructed everything there's02:29:44
God only knows how many choices like02:29:47
maybe there's millions of choices you02:29:49
know and each choice is guided by some02:29:53
intuition of narrative suitability or02:29:56
beauty or there's some higher ideal02:29:58
motivating it right the desire to02:30:01
produce a masterpiece maybe that's it02:30:03
that was certainly the case with the02:30:04
Disney movies for example and so that02:30:06
that aspiration then then makes the02:30:11
decisions and so I would say well02:30:14
something like that guided the writing02:30:16
and the selection of the stories in in02:30:19
the biblical canon now could have there02:30:23
been other stories included well the02:30:25
Catholics and the Protestants don't have02:30:26
the same biblical tradition and neither02:30:28
do the Jews and the Christians and so it02:30:30
isn't exactly clear what to make of that02:30:33
you know I mean that's akin in some02:30:35
sense to the discussion we just had02:30:37
about Islam and Christianity in some02:30:43
sense I've left that aside that specific02:30:46
question except insofar as I've just02:30:48
answered because I'm trying to take what02:30:51
we have which I know is that their route02:30:53
of our culture and to figure out what it02:30:55
is that we have02:30:56
why it is that we have it well I've made02:31:01
some attempt to explain that in the02:31:03
manner that I just described but I don't02:31:05
have a final answer I could it have been02:31:07
different it could have been different02:31:12
at some levels but the same at others02:31:14
you know I mean one of the things it's02:31:16
the scholars of comparative religion who02:31:19
haven't been infected fatally with02:31:21
post-modernism have definitely realized02:31:23
so young for example in Le ah de people02:31:26
who are interested in grand narratives02:31:28
one of the things they pointed out quite02:31:30
clearly is that there's there's there's02:31:32
a set of common mythological themes02:31:35
across many cultures and I tried to02:31:37
outline that in maps of meaning and that02:31:39
worked out quite nicely for me at least02:31:41
as far as I was concerned because once I02:31:43
had the basic archetypal structure02:31:44
mapped out it opened up all sorts of02:31:46
stories to me from all sorts of02:31:47
different cultures and that's been02:31:49
unbelievably useful like the02:31:51
Mesopotamian story of it the Anu mulisch02:31:54
when I figured out what that meant as02:31:56
far as I was concerned like I've never02:31:57
forgotten that it just seared itself02:32:00
into my memory and the same with the02:32:02
Egyptian stories and you know some02:32:04
Buddhist writings that I've read in some02:32:06
the daodejing is also very powerful so I02:32:09
think that things can be different on02:32:11
one level and the same at another but02:32:14
that humanity kind of coalesce is on02:32:16
what's the same over a reasonable period02:32:18
of time because there isn't that many02:32:20
ways that human beings can live properly02:32:23
as individuals and as groups together02:32:25
and so there's this constant force that02:32:28
makes our ethical presuppositions02:32:31
converge and then that's automatically02:32:33
expressed in the stories it's something02:32:35
like that now it's an imperfect process02:32:37
and it's full of error so02:32:48
so just one announcement well two02:32:53
announcements the next lecture I believe02:32:55
is November 14th so I'll hopefully02:32:56
finish off the story of Jacob looks like02:32:59
it and then I'm also appearing on a02:33:02
panel with God's odd and or an Amity on02:33:05
November 11th and there's still quite a02:33:08
few tickets available for that so if02:33:10
you're interested you could go to my02:33:11
website and pick up those tickets huh it02:33:13
should be well hopefully it'll be02:33:15
interesting I think it will be and might02:33:18
be too interesting that's one02:33:20
possibility so we'll see but I'm gonna02:33:24
do two more of these this year and I02:33:26
hope I get through the story of Joseph02:33:28
and then I can start in the New Year02:33:30
with it with Exodus and that's a story02:33:32
that I know quite well and that the02:33:34
Exodus and Leviticus and what's the one02:33:36
after that yes thank you so I'm very02:33:40
much looking forward to that because02:33:41
that is one killer story that so and02:33:44
I've got some surprises for that as well02:33:46
so anyways thank you very much for02:33:49
coming and hopefully we'll see you02:33:51
November 14thDescription:
Watch Exodus available exclusively on DailyWire+: https://www.dailywire.com/show/exodus?cid=exodus&mid=na&xid=0 The Psychological Significance of the Biblical Stories starts up after a two month hiatus with the first half of the story of Jacob, the founder of Israel ("those who wrestle with God"), the man who robs his brother of his birthright, is deceived into marrying the wrong woman, and dreams of a stairway to heaven, in the ancient Shamanic tradition. Producer Credit and thanks to the following $200/month Patreon supporters. Without such support, this series would not have happened: Mike Hodges, Nick Swenson, Nathaniel Snyder, Nolan Watson, Michael M, Ahmad Alnatour, The Renegade of Funk, Levi Grandt, Nicole Weiss, David Morris Burns, Maciej Bembnista, Mauricio Morales Sanchez, Fabio Sousa, Kelly Rentzel, Roshan Punnen, Zachary Vader, Heather Drieling, TheArchangel911, Doug Deeper, Christopher Hostland, Secret Cow, Lynn Holland, Kyle Fowler, Luke Mortenson, Mark Hoad, Fabian Schuler, Eric Pirog, Khalil Choudhry, Sarah Lee South, Justin Lapollo, Benjamin Cracknell, Dan Gaylinn, Badr El Amari, GeorgeB, Ryan Kane, Enrico Leiaru, Craig Morrison, David Tien, Keith Jones, Kevin Van Eekeren, John Woolley, Julie Byrne, Srdan Pavlovic, Kevin Fallon, Sabish Balan, Chad Grills, Johnny VInje, Joel Kurth, Daren Connel, Kristina Ripka, Sean C, Jesse Michalak, James Bradley, David Johnson, Damian Fink, Brian Cartmell, Jan Suchanek, Matt Sattler, Louise Parberry, Chris Martakis, Linda Ashar, Jason Ferenc, Mayor Berkowitz, Patricia Newman, Ben Baker, George Diaz, Soheil Daftarian, Christopher Ballew, Kevin Patrick McSurdy, Trey McLemore, Safa Maiwand, DDS, Scott Carter, Robin Otto, Arden Armstrong, James N. Daniel, III, Trick --- SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL --- Direct Support: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/donate Merchandise: https://teespring.com/stores/jordanbpeterson --- BOOKS --- 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/12-rules-for-life/ Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/maps-of-meaning/ --- LINKS --- Website: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/ 12 Rules for Life Tour: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/events/ Blog: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/blog/ Podcast: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/podcast/ Reading List: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/great-books/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser --- PRODUCTS --- Personality Course: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/personality Self Authoring Suite: https://selfauthoring.com/ Understand Myself personality test: https://understandmyself.com/ Merchandise: https://teespring.com/stores/jordanbpeterson
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